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“He told me that in Sandy it is still the ‘good old boy’ system, and he could just go to Detox or home,” Newton wrote. “I informed him that I had a job to do and that it was nothing personal.”
Sandy Police Chief Harold Skelton denied that claim, stating, “Drunk people will say anything.”
Bruce Mowry, an attorney representing the city, wondered if Bergin was responsible for what he said when he was drunk, and said that it’s important to consider the context of the statements.
Bergin was lodged at the Washington County Jail, and his bail was set at $3,710 – the standard for misdemeanor crimes. He also paid $408 in court fees.
The officer opted to enter a one-year diversion program. Diversion, a program designed for first-time offenders, allows lawbreakers to enter into counseling and/or community service work. At the end of diversion, the case is dismissed.
Bergin’s diversion ends April 9.
Reaction
Chief Skelton found himself in uncharted territory when he was notified of the incident in the middle of the night. Flabbergasted at what he said was one of the department’s worst personnel crises, he consulted others to come up with an appropriate response to Bergin’s actions.
“I checked with other chiefs who have had similar incidents, as well as legal counsel and labor attorneys, and they suggested things to help,” Skelton said. That advice led him to levy a punishment he said was “probably the most harsh any of us have faced in the 30-plus years I’ve been here.”
City officials wouldn’t specify what the punishment entailed, calling it a private personnel matter.
“It was an off-duty incident, but the city responded appropriately,” said Bruce Mowery, an attorney representing the police department in several lawsuits. “It was not ignored; if anyone thinks the city ignored it, they’re sadly mistaken.”
Sandy Mayor Linda Malone would not comment on the incident, due to its connection to the ongoing Kaady case.
Eriks Gabliks, spokesman for the Oregon Department of Public Safety Standards and Training, said that when it comes to disciplinary action for officers arrested for DUII, there is no norm.
“It’s very much handled on an agency-by-agency basis,” Gabliks said. Punishments range from immediate dismissal to reassignment, and everything in between. It all depends on what occurred during the incident and each department’s policies and procedures.
“We understand that officers make mistakes, make poor decisions in their life,” Gabliks said. “And DUII, unfortunately, is one of those for some people.”
He said an officer’s certification is not typically at risk for a first-time DUII offender.
“You’ll never hear us say we stand behind officers that drink and drive,” Gabliks said. “We don’t stand behind inappropriate decisions.”
Burrows, the Kaady attorney, says Bergin’s punishment didn’t go far enough.
“He should be fired,” Burrows said. “If not for the shooting, for the DUII.
“My guess is that after I talked to him, this (the shooting) has completely traumatized him,” Burrows continued. “He told me he has a hard time pulling people over. I don’t think he can function anymore; he shouldn’t be a police officer.”
The city disagrees. They say Bergin has got his life back together, and is a productive, upbeat, rehabilitated member of the department.
“He went to court, and took responsibility for what he did,” he said, noting that Bergin also wrote a letter of apology to the entire department. “He did everything and beyond what the courts asked him to do. Before he came back, he was thoroughly examined, and was 100 percent fit for duty.”
Bergin has reportedly given up alcohol, not touching a drop since his arrest. He recently was given the task of being the field-training officer for new police recruit Lewis Sytsma.
“If I didn’t think he was stable, I would not have given him that responsibility,” Skelton said. Although dealing with a disorder that has left many officers “surly,” Skelton said, Bergin has shown himself to be positive and competent.
City officials believe that the use of this incident in the Kaady case is an attempt to discredit the entire Sandy Police Department.
“Why would someone want to resurrect an off-duty incident that happened about a year ago?” Mowery asked. “It must be a psychological ploy, hoping to somehow upset and destroy Bill Bergin … and take advantage of it somehow.”
Skelton says that while the department takes the incident very seriously, he also understands the level of stress Bergin has dealt with since the September 2005 shooting.
“It’s been real hard for him,” the chief said. “I know a lot of people who have been involved in shootings, and everyone says it changed them.”
Some of those officers, he said, went on and finished their careers, but others – about 80 percent – ended their career in law enforcement within five years of a shooting.
“Bill Bergin is a victim of a tragic scenario that he had limited participation in, with quickly unfolding events, and not a lot of time for reflection,” Mowery said. “Some people may have handled it better than he did, but he got help, and it’s worked well. He’s got his life back together.”
“You know, he’s been going through some hard times,” Mayor Malone said of Bergin. “The chief is responsible for determining whether an officer is fit for duty. He has made that call, and at some point we’ll decide whether that call was the right call.”
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Thanks for adding the comment section.
This is sad for all involved. When a shooting happens the effects on all last a lifetime. A split decision that changes everyone associated with the tragic event.
I feel sad for everyone involved.
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 07, 2008 at 03:22 AM
Thank you for adding the ability to comment on this article. The Post should allow its readers the forum to anonymously remark on these issues as the editorial board has done and as it does on other stories. In that same vein, why isn't this week's editorial online? I have more comments for that piece than I do this article.
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 07, 2008 at 04:18 AM
All that this proves is that the officer is a human being, subject to the frailties of the human condition. Generally, in our society, one is given the option of treatment prior to termination from employment for DUII.
If you want to speak of current industry standards, several agencies in the metro area have had officers arrested for DUII that have retained their positions.
It sounds as if this officer should be screened for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, as well as having a fitness for duty evaluation by a psychologist.
Substance abuse and self-destrucive behavior is common in PTSD cases. The officer is obviously having trouble with the shooting. And PTSD is a lifelong condition, it will not just "go away."
This, undoubtably, is worsened by the brayings of Michelle Burrows and her kind. Perhaps the learned counsel could just shut up and save it for court.
This officer should recieve treatment and appropriate discipline, not further abuse.
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 07, 2008 at 04:41 AM
WOW! REALLY? WHAT A SURPRISE. I COULD HAVE PREDICTED THIS COMING. WHATS NEXT GOOD OLD BOYS?
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 07, 2008 at 04:57 AM
Boy, what a surprise that there's someone on here named "Unknown" that will post a smart comment. Some people need to get a life.
We all have an opinion about the Kaady case, and you will never know what it's like until you're in that situation. This article shows that Officer Bergin is human, plain and simple, and he has been affected by what happened.
I agree with "Been There", PTSD is a serious disorder, and it must be handled correctly. No cop WANTS to shoot someone...and anyone who thinks that is delusional.
Now, I do think that Sandy cops have the "Good 'ol Boy" thing going on, but I don't break the law, so I don't have to worry about it.
Amazing that it's as simple as that.....
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 07, 2008 at 05:24 AM
"Lets all remember that Officer Bergin was off duty at the time & he does have the right to have a personel life just like you & me! If a regular citizen was involved in the same sittuation would it be printed in the paper??? Probably not!"
Just read the police log
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 07, 2008 at 06:13 AM
Editorial response:
We run the police log every week, and in it we run the names of those who have been arrested/cited for DUII.
Britney Spears was released from a Psyc Ward this week... will this be tomorrow's headline...please??
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 07, 2008 at 07:27 AM
You know Marcus, it is pretty low to start saying bad things about people who have went through hard times such as this. Have you ever had a situation like Officer Burgen's? I don't think so. Therefore you cannot fully understand.
This happened a year ago and was done and over with. What was your reason to bring all of this pain and suffering up again?
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 07, 2008 at 08:44 AM
I agree! I am a friend and neighbor of Bill's and he is nothing but a great guy. We all have our ups and downs in life but are all human. I give nothing but Bill praise. For being 26 and to have gone through what he has been through shows a lot about his character and how to overcome life's obstacles.
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 07, 2008 at 11:03 AM
Absolutely disgusting and pathetic to see every brain dead athoritarian lover running to Bergins defense here with all these sappy excuses for his inexcusable conduct. It's easy to tell that these are the same law and order types that defend excessive force, perjury, and all the other cop crimes and then claim that anyone that dares to criticize law-enforcement must be some kind of loser with a record.
What is very clear from reading the entire arrest report is that we are dealing with someone that is very willing to lie and use as much influence and trickery as possible to escape accountibility for his actions.
Bill Bergin is clearly worse than most of those he arrest when it comes to honesty and character. What we are seeing is the culture of cop violence, the good-ole boy system, and all the kings men lining up to conceal and coverup what a total loser Bill is.
Perhaps the sadest thing here is knowing what a criminally psychotic laywer the city of Sandy has and finding out that we have a mayor and chief who have kept this all too relevant arrest secret from us for almost a year. As far as I'm concerned, this demands the immediate dismissal of Bergin, the firing of Skelton and the resignation of Linda Malone.
As if we needed further proof after all the earlier reports about how our police department was run and how corrupt our city administrators were. Mayor Malone was too weak to fire Skelton and Bergin when she had good reason and now she is hiding behind a pathetic mouthpiece (Mowery) that she has delegated the duty of damge control to. This is absolutely disgusting, and the citizens of Sandy should be up in arms instead of reading the above post written by schills from Malone & Skelton's camp.
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 07, 2008 at 11:47 AM
What a sad day in our city when a local paper wants to make someone's private life so public. Guess your editor selects only certain subjects that cause only harm to select groups, police officers who protect us from the bad guys. Your editor has no class.
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 07, 2008 at 11:57 AM
Simply Disgusting, repulsive, pathetic, and inexcusable that anyone would reprimand Marcus or the paper for having the kahoneys to run this story.
How pathetic that these disgusting, reprehensible, schills for Sandy PD would suggest that Bergin be held to a much lower set of standards than any other citizen.
Have these puny minions lost their minds? Aren't we supposed to be able to look up to authority for an example of conduct and moral fiber?
Bergin isn't the victim here. Each and every citizen that wants a respectable and responsible PD and honest representation is the victim here. What we are seeing is a blatant culture of violence that has already cost Sandy dearly and will only get worse with these cover-ups orchestrated by Mayor Malone and Chief Skelton. Bergin should have lost his police credentials the day he tortured and killed an unarmed, naked, badly injured citizen. Now they all must go. We have caught our highest level officials trying to cover up what we all have the right to know. This was premeditated official misconduct and an insult to every citizen.
To make matters worse, now we have all these city sponsored schills writing post suggesting that Bill Bergin is the victim here. No Fricken Way!!!
This is an insult to everyone's intelligence. While Malone and Skelton hide behind the absurds lies of their hired mouth-piece (mowery), our city and it's reputation spiral further downward as the result of complete and absolute, cowardly, corruption.
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 07, 2008 at 12:45 PM
Dear editor,
The comments posted for this story at 8:45 p.m. and 9:35 p.m. are the exact same. Why must we read this person's ridiculous rants twice? I beleive that these posts also violate your own policy regarding unsubstantiated allegations of criminal activity and libel. This person claims that Mayor Malone and Chief Skelton somehow conspired to cover this issue up. I do not see how that is substantiated by fact, so per your own policy any comments posted like that should have never been posted. I also see personal attacks on Mr. Mowery, yet another violation of your policy. There are several others as well. When I first read this article I was impressed that you had shut off the comments section. I understand you have a responsibility to report the news, but Marcus, the decision to turn this option on is not healthy for our community. How does allowing people to personally attack Bill Bergin and Sandy PD help? What does this solve? Let them attack these people on some other website. Please consider removing the comments section.
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 07, 2008 at 03:09 PM
Editorial response:
If you look at the postings above, you'll find that most of them do not attack Bergin, but they support him.
This absolutly discusts me!! How do you justify writing about something that happened a year ago? And to bash him? Especially on something none of us know anything about? Who here knows anything about being involved in a decision of taking a life? How does anyone justify it? We were not there, We do not know the long term effects that has on anyone or the psycological effects.
Obviously he was still having problems and trying to self medicate. I have been through hard times and have a DUII on my record as well. I am in no place to judge and neither is anyone else. We all make mistakes and if our society is going to throw us all under a bus for doing so, who will be left? There is no such thing as a perfect person. Personably knowing him he is a great guy with a huge heart!
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 07, 2008 at 04:02 PM
Actually, if you look close you can tell that lw,eccw and james marx are the same. I don't think this is anyone in Sandy's business. If you lived in Sherwood you would probably have heard about it in the Police Log but why should a person's problem that is being taken care of by the city be any of our concern.
Especially since this happened so long ago, Bergin entered diversion and it is over with. This is ridiculous. We should make sure Bergin is mentally okay and fit for duty because of the traumatic incident he was involved in, not ridicule him in the paper.
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 07, 2008 at 04:21 PM
After reading the above listed story and then the subsequent articles posted by members of the community, I had to pause and give thought. I am in support of the Sandy Post and its editor for reporting a news worthy story. I have sympathy for the position of Officer Bergin and am certain that this is a difficult situation to be in, however, in the Portland metro area, we read about multiple deadly force situations every year. How many of the officers involved are found committing crimes afterwards?
The issue that seems to be popping up repeatedly is whether the newspaper should have printed this story. The answer is an obvious yes. It doesn't matter if this event occurred one year ago or five minutes ago, it is a news story. It is the job of this paper to report on the news. There was nothing in this article that was outside of the facts. This was reporting.
One of the comments listed referenced the fact that if you don't want to be in the paper, don't commit a crime. It is that simple!
I respect very much the job of our law enforcement officers and I do believe that so many times they are absolutely JUSTIFIED to use MORE force than they do. No officer would need to use any force if the subject being arrested would simply comply with the directions they are given.
I have seen many comments posted regarding many articles on this site, and so many of the times the issue becomes skewed. This matter is simple. Officer Bergin made a poor decision. It does not matter what the cause. It does not matter if he is a good person. It does not matter if I/we like him. The fact is, he made a poor decision, he works in a profession that is in the public eye, and he is essentially in a fish bowl twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week. If this is not acceptable to Officer Bergin, then there are other careers that he can pursue.
The Supreme Court of the United States, many years ago, ruled that our law enforcement officers are held to a higher standard than that of a simple citizen. Like it or not, that is the way it is and the way I believe it should be.
Officer Bergin may or may not be a good officer, and a good person, that is not for me to judge. The issue at hand is simply should this article have been written and published.
After careful analysis and much thought, the answer has to be yes. I am sorry if it is uncomfortable some people, but I am glad that the truth be told.
For the people who want to say, "it's a year old," this story would most likely have been published last year and we would not be having any discussions, had the department released the information in a timely manner.
Thank you Marcus and the rest of The Sandy Post for reporting what had to be a difficult story to tell.
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 07, 2008 at 04:58 PM
It's clear that the same cop-hater wrote all three acerbic rants (L.W., ECCW, and James Marks). He really likes the word "shill", too bad he can't spell it. He says that we should be able to look up to authority for an example of moral fiber, but I'll wager that isn't a true statement, he appears to hate all policemen simply because of their occupation. He sounds like a very bitter individual. One who's never had to deal with such a traumatic event as the officer in this article has.
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 07, 2008 at 05:23 PM
Editorial response:
For the record, I am not the author of any comments on this story.
James Marks
Webmaster
Pamplin Media Group
Dear Editor,
I still count three articles that appear to violate your policy in regards to unsubstantiated allegations of criminal activity, personal attack, and libel. Why do these comments remain? So, because most articles support Mr. Bergin these people are allowed to skate by your own policy? That is how I perceived your response, since you didn't remove the other comments, or respond to my questions. Are people immune from your policy because these people are public figures?
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 07, 2008 at 10:34 PM
Dear Sandy resident cop;
There is overwhelming evidence that Malone and Skelton intentionally concealed a viable news story from the public for almost a year that the public had a right to know about. If you are going to get upset over something be upset that your city leaders are helping keep the good-ol-boy system in place by trying to protect and cover up serious problems that should be of concern to every citizen.
Where is the concern for the Kaady family that lost their son two years ago because of a poor decision made by Bergin? I remind all the cop sympathizers that public officials and figures are willingly place themselves in the public light and that journalism standards differ for them than for civillians.
A big thanks to Marcus and the paper for having the courage to stand up to an obviously broke down good ol boy network. I hope this article will make perfectly clear that we are all in great danger until Mandatory Random Drug Testing is implamented through-out Clackamas County and officials are held accountible for their actions.
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 01:23 AM
Thank God Pamplin owns the Sandy Post. Our last post editor would never have had the courage to post this Public Service Announcement Article.
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 01:28 AM
Gee where was this phoney that poses as a "Good Citizen"
when Fouad Kaady was tortured and gunned down last year?
This is the same person that always insist that cops and elected officials be held to a moral standard that is somewhat lower than that of child molestors. There is no reason to give Bill Bergin a pass here and doing so would obviously violate the public trust and good common sence values. I'm afraid this tired old double standard is breaking down and that the irational aurguments coming from those supporting tyranny carry little weight with most.
I feel sorry for Bill too, but that doesn't extend to letting him keep a job that places the public in jeapordy. Thanks again to the real heroes out there that aren't afraid to stand up for truth and justice.
The sooner we can weed out the weaklings and cowards from public service jobs and those that support blatant misconduct, the sooner the city of Sandy will be on it's way to rehabilitation and respectibility.
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 01:45 AM
Thanks Pamplin for having the guts to run this story.
Despite most of the comments being made, your article really supports law-enforcement because it makes it clear that the Cop Community has some serious systemic problems such as substance abuse. I think we all know the first step to over coming a serious problem is admitting you have one. Let's hope that those cops suffering and those officials covering it up will all get help now that they have been exposed.
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 01:56 AM
I am so sick and tired of hearing that Fouad Kaady was "tortured and gunned down". If he was "gunned down" as you put it, then wouldn't Sandy have a hell of a lot more "officer involved shootings"???? You make it sound like Sandy officers shoot everyone they pull over or arrest!! Come on, let's stop all the overdramatic posts. Remember, the Grand Jury decided that this was a justified shooting.
And, "Another Concerned Citizen", no one concealed this story from the public; it is and was always PUBLIC RECORD.
I'm sure being a cop isn't easy, no matter WHERE it is. And being put in the position to have to end someone's life isn't easy either. But it seems that a lot of anti-cop people that post here think that they would have done it differently.
I highly doubt it.......but it's easy to get on that soap box.
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 02:03 AM
In regards to previously written
"For the people who want to say, "it's a year old," this story would most likely have been published last year and we would not be having any discussions, had the department released the information in a timely manner."
#1
My biggest problem with this whole story is the obvious effort made to cover it up. The Sandy police chief should be ashamed of himself.
#2
The officer should have been terminated. Any police officer caught driving under the influence should be terminated.
Should I get fired for duii, no, I'm not an police officer.
#3
It seems obvious to me that the officer is being retained for fear of a lawsuit stemming from a previous mistake. Stress/anxiety..you know it's coming.
#4 It is a "cop out" not to say what the punishment was for this officer.
Absolutely Unacceptable
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 05:33 AM
One more comment.
Yes, this story should have been written. When it happened, even more so than now.
It is an oversight that is obviously needed on the Sandy PD, as was witnessed by their attempt to cover it up. Lack of information is covering up. What else are the chief and mayor capable of?
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 05:39 AM
I can think of many ways the Sandy Post could spend their time than to write about to horrible situations. This Officer is a fine person, who again is human. He went through a rough period in life, which all of us have experienced, but also experienced a horrible event that changed his life.
I was a Police Officer for several years and were involved in many incidents that have shaped my life today. I have been involved in 2 shootings which changed my life. They were both very traumatic and I have carried them around inside for several years. I have gone through nighmares, depression and a severe panic disorder.
I'm still dealing with a panic disorder that has now put me on disability. I have lived in my home for over a year and have not been able to even go into town. These types of incidents leave a mark that can not sometimes be taken away.
Obviously, the writer of this article has not done his home work regarding the conditions this type of trauma can create in a human. The writer was only looking at getting the last word for no other reason than personal gain. Facts are the upmost importance in terms of writing an article of this nature, but again this was only used for personal gain of the Sandy Post.
Allow this Officer to heal and move on with his life in a healthy manner. Find something important to write about and report.
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 06:29 AM
I simply can't believe how stupid some people are. This is the problem with our society today- no one takes responsibility for their own actions. Printing this report makes THE NEWS PAPER the bad guy, not the person who committed the offense? What!!?
I am a citizen of this town, and I am glad I know about this. Is it easy to hear? No. Is it something that is all warm and fuzzy? No. But as a citizen, I'm glad I know.
Police men are to be held to a higher standard than Joe Schmo. They carry the guns. They uphold the laws. They arrest other drunk drivers. Why is it the reporters fault, or anyone elses, other than the officer? Who cares when it was? It happened, and while some people would rather just sweep things under the rug, I think government needs to be open and honest and TRANSPARENT, and if they don't do it themselves, it's the local papers job.
I wish the post would have put up the editorial that went with this story. maybe if a lot of people read that, they'd realize why the paper did what it did, and why now.
Get a grip people. You're killing the messenger. There's a lot of hypocrisy here... some people can get DUIs and some can't. That's wrong. Some people even think DUI isn't a crime! It is! I know people who have died from it!!!
The paper played it pretty even handed, for a story I think must have been hard to write and even harder to put into ink. Stop blaming others! Realize that a fault happened here and move on appropratly.
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 06:59 AM
Editorial response:
After a little difficulty, we finally have the associated editorial on the Opinion page.
Reading through these comments made my day. While I have no problem with the paper running the article, it is abundantly clear that the majority of the public supports Officer Bergin and reaffirms (again) that the indy media freaks are truly just a very small, out-of-touch, fringe group of morons who haven't a shred of connection to the real world and most likely are the same worthless, petty criminals breaking into your car at night for the change out of your ashtray...
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 08:15 AM
Let's see if I have this right. Anyone that supports transparency and honesty in government service is a cop hater!! You must be writing for all of your high school drop out buddies here, because I really don't think this softmore/ fox news style spin is going to influence anyone with more than an eighth grade education. Save the cop hater rhetoric for your buddies at the gym muscle head.
Bill's arrest shows a number of things. He has a substance abuse problem. He is less than honest, and can be very manipulative with both the truth and people.
Bill doesn't deserve a free pass because he is a cop. He needs to be held as accountible for his actions as any other citizen.
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 08:24 AM
Thanks "Upset Citizen" for confirming the demented and skewed mind set that evidently most public servants such as yourself suffer from.
You obviously believe that public servants should enjoy immunity for their actions and a lower set of standards than your corrections clients are afforded. What has became freightenly clear here is that anyone associated with the local cop culture is totally OK with the idea of zero accountibility for their peers and maintaining this established system of dont ask, dont tell. It's obvious from some of the open admissions seen here that causual support of coverup and concealment behavior, disdain for open & transparent reporting, and resistance to open government comes from a small but extreme minority associated with law enforcement that truly believes itself above the law and common decency. No amount of pro-bad-cop propaganda can change these obvious facts, and no amount of propaganda, denial, finger pointing at the paper, or minimizing bad behavior, can change the truth of what an honest cop entered in his police report last March 9th about the actions and conduct of Bill Bergin.
To all those making excuses fo Bill, wecome to reality.
It's right here in black and white and you cant change the facts, lie out of it, or bulley anyone into keeping their mouth shut. Now DEAL WITH IT and grow up. I feel sorry for your children if this is the standard you set for them to follow as they grow up and enter society.
Accountibility is for everyone, not just the masses or lowly peons.
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 11:21 AM
I did not realize that Burrows was such a well trained individual to make such a comment about Officer Bergin. Did the Post interview other individuals that were in the room when Burrows interviewed Officer Bergin? I believed Burrows was testing Officer Bergin to see if he would lie--Guesss he passed the test--he did not. Is Burrows really just providing you an opinion to discredit Officer Bergin? Does Burrows have the necessary training to make such a call about Officer Bergin? Please check your facts, if it is just a lawyer's opinion to discredit someone Marcus please just be honest say just that it is an opinion not a fact. The editor has really shown the citizens of Sandy what type ethical policies the post has to let all these opinions be published in such a manner.Facts not opinions make a good newpaper.
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 11:45 AM
I've really enjoyed reading these comments. It sure is good to see the vast majority of citizens standing up to the propaganda and rhetoric coming from the morally bankrupt crowd of anti social deviants that really never have had a clue about anything that relates to having honesty & Character anyway.. Honesty starts with each one of us and if you can't get past telling the truth about little things, it's likely that you won't ever have a clue about Character.
I agree that it is very scary to know that we have this minority of deviants among us and that many of them are in decision making positions, but on the other hand just think about all the good citizen stepping up to the plate to insure real democracy and even handedness in matters of law & justice. A good example of how far we have come as a community is witnessed by the fact that this story made it to press. Just a couple of short years ago, this story could not have made it into our old, biased & heavily sensored Sandy Post. Thank God for Marcus and Pamplin media for moving us all further ahead with freedom of the press.
As for those that jockey-box our cars at night and steal the change out of our ashtrays, it now seems that they are likely the same people masquerading as public servants in Sandy and writing some of these post that perport to be from real concerned citizens.. I encourage all honest citizens to Back UP and Push ahead as we take a new responsible City of Sandy into the future.
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 12:05 PM
Leave him alone. He is only human. We all make mistakes.
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 12:23 PM
Marcus (editor),
Months ago you posted a story blaming the Sandy Police Dept. for having a negative reputation in the eyes of the public. Correcting this "image" issue is a long up-hill battle that takes years to overcome. After you posted this article, Bergin's DUII, I'm confused about your stance regarding the Sandy Police Department. Are you intentionally trying to give the PD a worse reputaion? Your job is to help the local politics not intentionally deface them.
The police department is in fact working to correct this so called image issue you so nicely pointed out months ago. Again, you have become part of the problem not the solution. Two steps forward, one step back. Thanks again Marcus.
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 12:38 PM
Really....what exactly has the Police Department done to fix their "Image?" I am very interested in this? I don't see this as two steps forward at all....I see this more as....two steps back and lets hope no one sees that there is a communication problem!
Please correct me as to what two steps we have taken forward!
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 01:42 PM
How do you expect someone to get over an incident like a shooting when you remind him everyday about it? Everyone keeps talking about the Kaady shooting, well get over it. If you weren't physically there involved, you have no right to bring it up. Yeah you heard a story here and there from someone or a group of people, but you weren't in the situation that Bergin was. You take someone that is acting crazy and threatening you or a group of people with you; are you telling me you wouldn't do everything you could to protect yourself? Now put that scenerio into play as you being a cop that has to protect the city, and someone like that be endangering citizens, children, your mom's & dads,etc. What would you do? I believe Bergin did everything that he should have and stand full 100% behind him.
Before you put blame onto Bergin for what he may have done, you need to put yourself into his shoes. Taking on investigations, pressure from citizens, and the over load of what happened; this was bound to happen. You can only throw so much to someone before they break down. Its a human reaction. Doesn't matter if your a police officer, school teacher, doctor or the president of the United States; your going to face the same feelings & reactions.
Bergin has come a long ways from a year ago, so before you make comments about him or believe he needs to be fired; you need to see how he is NOW. People grow a lot within a year and things change. He isn't the same as he was a year ago, so people need to show a little bit compassion for someone who did struggle; yes, but getting better.
How do you expect people to love the City of Sandy, when people cant even back up their police officers and officials. If you don't believe in them, then move on and out of sandy. We dont need people to live here that dont appreciate them. Move on to Portland or Gresham. If you think you could do better, then run for mayor, or better yet, get a college degree and become a police officer. Then, when your in those shoes YOURSELF, you will understand what police officers go through everyday at work and off work.
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 01:46 PM
Don't blame Marcus for Sandy PD's reputation. He is only reporting the facts. Marcus didn't violate the law or try to conceal it from the public paying the freight.
Grow up and quit trying to blame someone else. Sandy PD has made it's own reputation and your city leaders have tried to cover it up and manipulate the truth instead of saying: "Hey, we have a serious problem and we are going to deal with it". You only dig a deeper hole for Sandy PD and it's officers by trying to blame others and dodge responsibility.
Congratulations Sandy. I'm afraid Malone and Skelton have just about sealed the verdict in the upcoming wrongful death lawsuit in federal court. Everyone in Clackamas County will end up paying to some extent for our collective apathy in ignoring the actions of Mayor Malone and Chief Skelton.
.
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 01:51 PM
While not a resident of Sandy anymore, I lived there for 18 years and actually went to High School and graduated with Bill Bergin. Bill was always a quiet, shy, thoughtful, and extremely nice guy. He took on a career that most people dont have the courage to do. He goes to work everyday and puts his life on the line for a pay check most people would laugh at. While doing his job he was forced to take the life of someone else to protect his own and others. Im sure very few of you have ever been put in that position. Unfortunately he made a mistake and drove while intoxicated when he was OFF DUTY. Can any of you honestly say that you have never had a couple of drinks and gotten behind the wheel? Of course not...your'e all saints! Police officers should not be held to any higher or lower standard than anyone else. Whether this story should or should not have been printed is not the issue...it was. And guess what???You all read it. Maybe this is the wake up call everyone needed to realize that even police officers are human and we need to give them what every human needs...a little compassion and understanding. Before you ridicule and bash Bill for a mistake he made that he has already paid for, you should thank him for protecting you and your family. We thank soldiers everyday for fighting for us across the world, but seem to forget to thank the people who fight for us in our own city.
Thanks Bill
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 12:27 AM
Why is this killer of an unarmed man still on the police force? He obviously has mental issues and the fact that he drove drunk to Sherwood to harrass his former girlfriend indicates he lacks the cognitive ability to choose right from wrong. How many other drivers did he endanger that night?
Please fire him now and take away his police certification before he kills another innocent citizen.
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 01:43 AM
Marcus,
As a police officer for many years, I have faced situations where killing was definitely one option, and in fact, have known the terror of having a loaded .45 caliber automatic pointed at my head by a suicidal man, so I do know a little about what it takes to do the job. I also know what it does not take: It does not require someone going crazy, first with a fully charged taser weapon, and then with his glock, on a person that he knows to be helpless and unarmed, just because the officer, as he admits, is afraid to get a little blood on himself.
You are to be commended, to have the courage to print this story, when these people, who have repeatedly shown total disregard for the law, and common decency live right down the hall from you, and have all of the tools at their disposal to do great harm to you. Watch your back, buddy. That your story was not as completely honest as I would like to see, it certainly went much further toward the truth than did any other media outlet, save for PDX Indymedia.
As for Officer Bergin, yes, he panicked, and he should not have, and as a result, a very badly burned man is dead, and that cannot be undone. Officer Bergin cannot begin to heal, though, until he addresses that fact, and the fact that he has neither the courage nor the ability to continue in his chosen field. That is unfortunate, but not all who want to be cops are qualified to do so. I wish him well in the future, but his actions at the scene of the Kaady death were very close to criminal, if not actually criminal. The coverup since has been a monument to government corruption. That he was allowed to continue, and not only that to be appointed as an FTA, AFTER harassing another citizen after driving to that person's home completely drunk and with a load of antidepressants on board sufficient to knock many of us out, is even MORE criminal. Of course, a department of the size of Sandy, which engages in nepotism (Skelton hired his own son???), cannot be expected to reject the good ol boy system as some towns (Sherwood, for one) have done. Until someone in your city gets a clue, you deserve what you have, a group of unfettered cowboys, riding rough shod over anyone not considered a member in good standing.
Naturally, you will notice that I, like any intelligent human being, will not be using my own name, or even my own email address, when I sign this. You will also note that no police officer in this state uses his own address on his driver's license, or any other form, and the law allows him that measure of anonymity for the very same reason that I choose to keep mine. Print, or do not print, my letter, but accept my kudos for at least telling part of the story, Marcus.
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 02:09 AM
Wow....I am weighing in a little late here but just wanted to vent a bit as well. First of all, it is refreshing to see the silent majority finally voicing their support for law enforcement. It is usually the same cop bashers who write every time. Whether the story is too many officers on a traffic stop to taking of a life, the story is the same and actually very few take it seriously. When you go over the top in any arguement no one pays much attention.
Being a sober police officer (not a Sandy PD Officer) who lives in Sandy I would thank all those who aren't ready to throw this young man out with the trash. Those who do already had this opinion before his DUII arrest. He deserves a chance to learn from this mistake and continue his career. Should he screw up again and get another chance, probably not. This is a serious matter and he has got to know there are no more chances.
As much as I hate to say it, in today's environment, this is a newsworthy story. As much as I hate the media and how they are more interested in stories vs the truth, this was one they couldn't nor should have been buried.
I absolutely guarantee that if some naked, bleeding, growling, young man (although acting like a wild animal) showed up on my door step, I would be absolutely scared to death. As officers we trained to react to certain situations and often our training takes over in life or death situations. This is what prevents many shootings as well providing the officer the ability of when they should take action. Since we are dealing with the human race then often we are faced with situations that there was no way we could have trained for. I personally have experienced this. This is when you hope your bladder is empty because you are absolutely scared to death. The only way to overcome this is through training and experience.
Bergin did what he felt he had to do under the circumstances and the jury will find him credible. Remember in these situations the law talks about what is "reasonable under the circumstances". And unless you have been talking to naked, bleeding, and growling humans all day, don't even talk to me about gunning down an unarmed man.
Bergin will tell the truth and the truth will prevail. Maybe that is what pisses people off. They don't want to believe the truth.
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 03:09 AM
"Oregon Officer" beat me to it. He did a fine kob of articulating the feeling of much of Law Enforcement. "Carlos", I do question your credentials. If you are even a real officer, where? What is an FTA? No response needed, just a thought.
The only thing that I would add to "Oregon Officer" is this. Throughout these posts I see a lot of comments about treating Ofc. Bergin just like anyone else. HE WAS! He was arrested for DUII. He was lodged at the jail (Not mandatory for an arresting officer, a DUII can be released to a sober person at many agencies and are.) He went through the process and apparently opted for diversion as many first time DUII offenders do. He paid the $408.00 court fee as anyone else would. I have seen many citizens keep their jobs after a DUII, yes even those that drive rigs on a regular basis that weigh 80K pounds.
As far as lying while being at a point 12% BAC, I don't appreciate that he would do that. However, I will tell you this. I have a saying about the people I deal with on a day to day basis. A majority of folks that I deal with in an enforcement situation lie to me. I don't care if you make 20K a year or 200K a year. These people are sober. Conduct a few traffic stops and you'll see what I mean. The interesting thing about DUII is that many of the weasle technicalities were created buy folks who can afford expensive lawyers and will not own up to the fact that they were DUII, true. And if you remember the article, when Ofc. Bergin was asked about this situation by the plaintiff's attorney he told her.
Many citizens seem to think that Police are not covered by the same constitutions, Federal and Oregon, that we swore to uphold. WRONG! We still maintain our 4th, 5th and 6th ammendmant rights, to name a few, like anyone else. I don't remember signing any waivers for that. So when an officer get's in a shooting, yes he/she has a a right to counsel before interviewing. When they get a DUII, yes they have equal protection and due process.
I cant' say anymore on the Kaady shooting than "Oregon Officer" did and he was right on.
I do not know Ofc. Bergin nor have I ever met him. I do not think that he should have been fired for a first time DUII. I do hope that his employer punishment was stiff and an eye opener, and left him with no doubt that there will be no second chance for a second DUII.
As far as the employer? DUII is not a major crime. Just look at the penalties. Does the employer of a citizen make a press release every time an employee is arrested for DUII? No. Ask this. Does a bank do a press release everytime an employee is arrested for stealing or fraud? No, and these people have control of your money. As far as Bergin's punishment? It is protected information just like it is for anyone else. My employee file is none of your business.
For you naysayers who might say that I am another government employee, get a grip. I do make sacrifices for you in my job. Irregular hours, court on my weekends, missed family activities, holidays at work fixing your family problems, dying an average of 10 years earlier than my peer group and being Monday morning quarterbacked for a decision made in seconds in a situation that you would have ran from. Wow, all that for a slightly above average income and the opportunity to be an assault victim about every two to three years on average. You know what though, I would not trade my job for anything. Why? Because I firmly believe in the old fashioned view of "good vs. evil" and that someone needs to stand up for those that can't do it for themselves. It's that simple and believe it or not MOST police officers think that way. We weed out those that are truly bad and truly need to be gone.
To whoever mentioned the "held to higher standard" ruling from the Supreme Court? You should put that in the proper context, or do you know what the context of the ruling was? And as far as higher standards, this is coming from people that I am sure trumpeted their support for Billy C. (yes the ex-president) when he was facing a perjury allegation and then defended him when it was pretty well substantiated.
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 04:11 AM
Oregon Officer and Another Officer are right. I'm glad to see some education listed on this post and not just bashing for one side or the other.
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 04:59 AM
Looks like we have some poeple here that are not happy with our fine Police and Sheriff Departments. If you break the law follow your arresting officer's commands like Officer Bergin, pay your dues like a good citizen. Whatever you do did not leave an accident scene with no clothes, kick a citizen who was helping you and run down the road toward one of our grade schools, resist arrest and tell two police officers while you are acting like an animal that you are going to kill them while standing on top of their patrol car. Yes, our police officers should go home unharmed after their shift. Good job by our sheriff and police departments. This shooting has already gone to court & a decision was made by the citizens of Clackamas County that these officers did their job. Keep up the good work Women and Men of sheriff and police departments.
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 05:27 AM
Obvious that Oregon Officer, Beth, and Another Officer are all the same person and most likely a minimum wage security guard. If you really want to help Bill, please quit making excuses for him. I am a friend of Bills and want to see him get well and honest. Quit encouraging him to return to this dishonest code of ethics that hurts us all. Bill has big enough shoulders to stand on his own. I believe most of your excuses would better be placed under the article about Shelly Uptain going to prison for manslaughter. Tell her victim's family why it is OK for a cop to drive drunk, refuse a soriety test, lie to an officer, and still keep his job.
Let's help get Bill into a new career he can handle and see if we can reform this corrupt culture that surrounds the city and it's PD. Having more sick cops and security guards defending substance abuse and writing comments here that look like year end testimonies at a real estate convention isn't helping Bill at all.
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 05:34 AM
Marcus,
I am noticing a pattern here. As long as the writer agrees (mostly) with what all of the other "law abiding" citizens have to say, their article remains, with or without i.d. Those of us with something contrary to contribute. Actually, and FTA is a typo, an FTO is a field training officer, and requires a great deal of experience and education.
I will stack my creds against any that these grammatically challenged cops wish to throw out. Challenge them all that you wish, but the point is, and you and I both know it, Bergin is not qualified, and should not even be an officer, let alone a FIELD TRAINING OFFICER.
That said, I know you are going to remove this again, so again, do what you must, but we all know the truth, even the ones who are trying to sound all supportive.
BTW (That means, "By the way."), although there were several witnesses close enough to spit upon the officers and Mr. Kaady, only the officers heard the threats to kill. As for being hysterical, and out of control, I suggest that you ask anyone who has ever been severely burned, how much they care about a little hit and run. Bet Richard Pryor could have cared less how many times some moron demanded that he lie on the hot pavement, he would not have done so, and neither would you.
As a police officer for many years, I have faced situations where killing was definitely one option, and in fact, have known the terror of having a loaded .45 caliber automatic pointed at my head by a suicidal man, so I do know a little about what it takes to do the job. I also know what it does not take: It does not require someone going crazy, first with a fully charged taser weapon, and then with his glock, on a person that he knows to be helpless and unarmed, just because the officer, as he admits, is afraid to get a little blood on himself.
You are to be commended, to have the courage to print this story, when these people, who have repeatedly shown total disregard for the law, and common decency live right down the hall from you, and have all of the tools at their disposal to do great harm to you. Watch your back, buddy. That your story was not as completely honest as I would like to see, it certainly went much further toward the truth than did any other media outlet, save for PDX Indymedia.
As for Officer Bergin, yes, he panicked, and he should not have, and as a result, a very badly burned man is dead, and that cannot be undone. Officer Bergin cannot begin to heal, though, until he addresses that fact, and the fact that he has neither the courage nor the ability to continue in his chosen field. That is unfortunate, but not all who want to be cops are qualified to do so. I wish him well in the future, but his actions at the scene of the Kaady death were very close to criminal, if not actually criminal. The coverup since has been a monument to government corruption. That he was allowed to continue, and not only that to be appointed as an FTA, AFTER harassing another citizen after driving to that person's home completely drunk and with a load of antidepressants on board sufficient to knock many of us out, is even MORE criminal. Of course, a department of the size of Sandy, which engages in nepotism (Skelton hired his own son???), cannot be expected to reject the good ol boy system as some towns (Sherwood, for one) have done. Until someone in your city gets a clue, you deserve what you have, a group of unfettered cowboys, riding rough shod over anyone not considered a member in good standing.
Naturally, you will notice that I, like any intelligent human being, will not be using my own name, or even my own email address, when I sign this. You will also note that no police officer in this state uses his own address on his driver's license, or any other form, and the law allows him that measure of anonymity for the very same reason that I choose to keep mine. Print, or do not print, my letter, but accept my kudos for at least telling part of the story, Marcus.
"CR"
(Not verified)
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 05:44 AM
It's not just Bill that needs help. It's everyone of these lying, drug dependent cops, trying to escape responsibility for their actions and maintain the good-ol-boy system.
Time to grow up boy cops and start being men. Thanks to all the honest citizens writing here demanding an end to this double standard of justice. Even Steve Hyson CCPOA, was arrested for domestic violence last week. This is the fricken president of the local cop union.
We are dealing with a sick bunch of children here, not the heroes that so many of these cowards try to pose as.
Until we have accountibility and Mandatory Drug Testing expect to see a lot more of the Same.
I'm content to let Gerry Spence bring the truth out in federal court about Bill Bergin. If you don't wish to wait that long call Washington County and request a full copy of the arrest of Bill Bergin and read it for yourself. It's all there in black and white. And above all, please don't let some third rate, has been, editor, or security guard tell you that lying, drunk driving, or shooting badly burned, unarmd, naked people is OK. WE All KNOW IT"S NOT.
Being a peace officer is a professional job and requires
professional people with character not weaklings on drugs with substance abuse problems that could snap again at any time and kill an innocent. Second chances don't cut it here. This is serious business and not even cops want someone like Bill backing them up.
None of these phoney liars posing as cops here are for real. It's disgusting to see every degenerate in town pretending to be a cop all of a sudden.
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 05:57 AM
Thanks for the good comments Moe Ronagan, and thank you retired sheriff for your comments and service.
God bless Bill Bergin and good luck in your new career.
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 06:02 AM
Thanks "pseudo officers" for confirming the demented and skewed mind set that evidently most public servants such as yourself suffer from.
You obviously believe that public servants should enjoy immunity for their actions and a lower set of standards than your corrections clients are afforded. What has became freightenly clear here is that anyone associated with the local cop culture is totally OK with the idea of zero accountibility for their peers and maintaining this established system of dont ask, dont tell. It's obvious from some of the open admissions seen here that causual support of coverup and concealment behavior, disdain for open & transparent reporting, and resistance to open government comes from a small but extreme minority associated with law enforcement that truly believes itself above the law and common decency. No amount of pro-bad-cop propaganda can change these obvious facts, and no amount of propaganda, denial, finger pointing at the paper, or minimizing bad behavior, can change the truth of what an honest cop entered in his police report last March 9th about the actions and conduct of Bill Bergin.
To all those making excuses fo Bill, wecome to reality.
It's right here in black and white and you cant change the facts, lie out of it, or bulley anyone into keeping their mouth shut. Now DEAL WITH IT and grow up. I feel sorry for your children if this is the standard you set for them to follow as they grow up and enter society.
Accountibility is for everyone, not just the masses or lowly peons.
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 06:11 AM
Another Officer, con job, lie when the truth fits better.
Whats Billy C have to do with you being a liar and supporter of crimes far more serious than the ones we pay real cops to protect us from. Everything about your post has liar written all over it. I should tell Showtime and have you punished.
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 07:05 AM
You make no sense!! You want to back the druggies and CRACKHEADS of Sandy but you cant back up your PD? Its not okay to drive drunk but we can all walk around on drugs and act like animals?
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 08:08 AM
So much for suggesting that it's someone else out there
we have to watch out for. I'm afraid the druggies and crackheads acting like animals are right here on the force.
STEVE HYSON: CCSO DETECTIVE
ARRESTED; ASSAULT , DOMESTIC ABUSE 2008
DON MAINERO: CCSO DEPUTY
ARRESTED, CONVICTED; SEX ABUSE, CONTRIBUTING TO DELINQUENCY OF MINOR/2007
BRYAN LAVIGNE: CCSO DEPUTY
ARRESTED, CONVICTED; ASSAULT ATTEMPTED STRANGULATION ON MINOR/2007
PERRY MARSHALL; CCSO PAROLE OFFICER
ARRESTED; ASSAULT, SPOUSAL ABUSE, KID NAPPING/2007
RAYMOND LOVELACE: CCSO DEPUTY
ARRESTED, CONVICTED; FORGERY, TAMPERING WITH DRUG RECORDS/2007
DAVID VERBOS: CCSO DEPUTY
ARRESTED, CONVICTED: ARMED ROBBERY 13 YEARS PRISON/ 2006
BILL BERGIN: SANDY PD
ARRESTED; DUII/2007
Step away from the crack pipe you hypocrites and open your eyes. Read your news papers, do the research, read the police reports. The state of law enforcement is at an all time low. We have EPIDEMIC proportions of excessive force, domestic violence, and above all drug and alcohol abuse among cops. Excuse me but no amount of sappy testimony about how hard it is to be a big, brave, strong, cop is going to change these facts. Now a days the average citizen stands a better chance of being victimized by a cop than a criminal.
To be sure we still have good cops that fit that traditional mold of being the public servants that protect us from societies worst psychopathes and we thank them for their service. Unfortunately we also have a disproportunate number of cops out there that represent a clear and present danger to us all. We can't go on allowing this gang of thugs to spoil the reputation of law enforcement and continue betraying the public trust.
As a retired cop, I must ask all of you to help me and those that are of like mind to stop this evil element that has taken control of law enforcement over the last decades and restore the profession to being a respectable one again. Please believe me, it's not just the beat or patrol cop causing these problems. There is institutional corruption starting right at the top with elected sheriffs, union officials, and working it's way down to the man on the street. You have no idea how many gangs have taken hold within local departments, and how much drugs fuel this whole criminal element. Those like me that object to this new style of policing and low set of standards are under constant threat if we talk. You have no idea how strong this code of silence is and how it can be enforced. I finally retired out of fear for the safety of my family.
I feel as sorry for Bill Bergin as anyone does and think he is basicly a decent human that has made some serious mistakes. This empathy doesn't extend to giving him a free pass. Bill screwed up and blew his chance to be one of the few that can proudly serve the public. We do have to be of exemplary character to do this demanding job and if we can't pass this test we let the public down and further hurt an already beat-up reputation and desinigrating standards for our profession.
The first thing I need your help with is, please don't stop here with your protest over the low standards that
Skelton, malone and their minions are trying to sell the public. Please understand that we are facing a well organized and entrenched gang that has no intention of cleaning up or reforming itself. They pay big bucks to have spin doctors write post like the ones you see above, trying to sway public opinion away from accepting responsibility for officer and department conduct. There has been a pretty organized and blatant attack launched against this paper for even telling you about the actions of our public servant Bill Bergin. Many of these post play the harp strings over sparing a fellow officer from ridicule and further punishment after all he has already been through. I agree that Bill has been through alot and I care about that, but don't be fooled by these guys that are making pretense to stick up for Bill.
I happen to know from my contacts that Bill has already been kicked under the bus by his peers. These letters and comments aren't about protecting Bill, they are about protecting a lawless gang of cops from scutiny and accountibility. These guys don't care about Bill. They care about keeping things just like they are at city hall, Sandy PD, CCSO,CCPOA, and our district attorney office. They don't want public oversight into their spending, or into their performance or conduct.
The way they see it, is that if we the public make any headway with civillian oversight through programs like random drug testing, or review boards, they are losing their autonomy and the right to go on doing whatever they damn well please.
Oh, to be sure, they will threaten the public and tell us we will be over run with crime if they have to start being held accountible for their actions, but there is no other way. Please start calling elected officials, going to town hall and county meetings, and writing letters to your commissioners and representatives. Tell them that you want to take law enforcement back from the thugs that now control it and make it the once respectable profession it was.
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 11:32 AM
Nice to finally see something sensibleand informed here.
We know Bill too and think he is a pretty good guy, but he sure did screw up. I hope he keeps getting better but he really should be fired along with his boss. Like most responsible home owner/ tax paying citizens of Sandy, I support our cops when they are doing a good job and doing what we pay them for. That does not mean letting them get away with what ever they want or what hurts our community.
I have been following these stories for quite a while and can't believe that Chief Skelton is still our chief.
I was appalled by his false arrest of Juan Rubio last year and glad to see a sensible judge more or less give him a good ass kicking in court. Just who do these jerks think they are fooling? You don't all of a sudden come up with a half dozen lawsuits because you have a good chief and a department doing a good job.
Mayor Malone really disgusts me and I think a simple resignation would be too good for her. I would like to see her banished from our town for all the disgrace she has brought us by being a self serving politician with poor ethics. As much as I like Bill, I still feel very sorry for the Kaady family and their loss as well. I have met them and they are outstanding and fine people.
Please don't be confused about our grand jury not indicting Bergin on criminal charges for this shooting. It doesn't mean he didn't do anything wrong; It just means there wasn't enough evidence to bring criminal charges. Bill did plenty wrong in my opinion, or Fouad Kaady would still be alive. Also remember, no one hear Fouad yell,"I'm going to kill you" except the two officers that shot him. Many others in ear range claim this never happened. I'm afraid the city and Bill's reputation are going to suffer another big set back when Gerry Spence wins this lawsuit and the truth comes out.
But don't worry, we will have the same liars telling us
no policies were violated and that the jury decision was wrong. It's always the same and will stay that way until we take action to change it. Thanks o Marcus and the responsible people commenting here.
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 12:19 PM
Amen to "Oregon Officer" and "Another Officer"! Thanks for coming on and telling your stories, and thanks for your service.
I find it interesting that if you read a few of these posting, they are all the same. And it sounds like the legal team for Kaady's family has been busy typing! At least, if you're going to write more than one posting, don't copy and paste the same thing over and over again!
And as for "Susan", I find it hard to believe that you "know Bill", and also have "met the Kaady family".
Please....did you get a lifetime supply of free car washes for that post???
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 01:50 PM
Thanks SANDY POST for reporting this most serious of incidents. Had it been left to our so-called "authorities" here, I doubt whether we'd have found
out about it. Bergin certainly has "issues" and lot
of problems, and till he's dealt with them, I don't
feel comfortable having him roaming our streets with
a badge, gun, and uniform on as we have no idea when
or if he'll go "postal" and kill someone again. I'm
not at all comfortable with the way this unfortunate
case has been handled and think it reflects poorly on
our erstwhile "authorities" and feel they're too pone
to Good Old Boy techniques to cover-up for themselves
and each other. Enough this crass stupidity! I feel
it's time for Bergin to be fired, and if there is any
reluctance on Skelton's part to do so, then fire him
as well. It's time for Mayor Malone to get her head
out of the clouds and quite being so spacy by her silly
running from responsibility and failure to hold her
charges accountable. Maybe the thing to do is to get
rid of the entire crowd...something is not right and it
takes no fool to see this. Wake up Sandy...this is your
community these clowns are playing with!!!!!
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 02:40 PM
Thank you Spare Me, you beat me to it. It's pretty entertaining reading these posts and being able to tell the same agenda from so many "different" people. Hahaha. Former Sheriff and Moe whatever (who posted under a different name earlier) are obviously not police. You can tell they are just trying to slander the police who work hard to protect us and sacrifice they own lives to put up with this crap. I don't know why they do it. They work in a job where anyone who has an opinion thinks they can do the job better while sitting at home on thier computer instead of dealing with the situations officers have to deal with. To those... get a life and quit whining.
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 03:45 PM
"Another one of Bill's neighbors." and "Retired US Attorney General" posted the same exact comment. I am one of Bills friend and a neighbor of his and we dont have a "Retired US Attorney General" in our neighborhood! How stupid do you think people are?
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 03:57 PM
To Moe, Retired Sheriff and Retired Logger,
It is pretty obvious who the cops are and who aren't. I wood imagine that the real cops are the ones tossing around actual questions and explaining how things work. You guys are not, you are ranting. I would like to know how you would have handled the Kaady scenario. No, I don't want to continuously hear how you disagree with their handling. I want to hear your ideas. I googled Mr. Kaady tonight and found a timeline of events that started at 6:58am or somewhere in that neighborhood. I saw several of the 9-1-1 calls and some witness statements that came in regarding his bazaar behavior prior to and during the traffic collisions. Now I always keep in mind that witness statements are not something to hang your hat on and you guys certainly have to agree. Forensic evidence is usually a little better indicator of what truly happened. Has anyone seen a tox screen on Kaady? All I could find was a statement that "Federal Law" barred the release of the results. The family was kind enough to admit that there was THC in his system.
But, since you guys don't know everything about the incident and we know that the dispatched information is critical in the officers decision making process, how would you have handled it. Yes, considering the dispatch information and the fact that all officers have had physical confrontations with injured persons who are acting bazaar.
I don't think this is quite an open and shut case for Mr. Spence and his goons. I hope that Sandy and CCSO let this go to court, it should be interesting.
And yes, I would question you guys being cops just based on the way you write. Ranting gets you nowhere. Educate, consider the radio traffic and the initial calls. The info can not be dismissed. To be honest I am not sure I have met a firefighter that would not stage until the patient was secure given the information the officers had going into it.
Food for thought.
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 07:18 PM
By the way, answering the handling of the scenario will separate the cops from the imposters.
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 07:21 PM
Thanks Sandy Post for reporting this!
I read more extensive coverage @ PIMC and am appalled!
Bergin is obviously a troubled man. Is "karma" at play?
His creditability is diminished & Spence will maul him.
Sandy taxpayers will foot the bill...
...and the beat will go on...
SHAME! SHAME! on the whole lot at SPD & City Hall!!!
(email verified)
Sun, Feb 10, 2008 at 02:29 AM
anyone who has had the misfortune to deal with the sandy police know just how inept they are. Malone has been the front runner for these guys for too many years.
Times have changed, its time for a new mayor!
(email verified)
Sun, Feb 10, 2008 at 02:33 AM
Thanks to all those good Sandy citizens that support Cop crime and violence. We need you here in Satan's Army. Your support of evil helps us to move closer every day to Hell on Earth. I couldn't do it without you.
(email verified)
Sun, Feb 10, 2008 at 04:20 AM
Wow,
You know I am not trying to throw anyone under the train here but, has anyone mentioned the fact that a CCSO Deputy fired three rounds as well. Dep. Willard has many ears in LE as well. More than one officer shooting, from different departments,is a consideration in the events. It is not like Bergin was alone here. I know the rabid anti-cops will go crazy on this and of course discount anything this means technical wise. Because it truly is about emotion and settiling old scores right?
By the way I did want to add my thoughts to this Grand Jury thing. I notice the anti cops like to spin this to their own liking. They usually base this spin on comments they read in the paper. When an officer shoots someone it is automatically a homicide investigation, duh. That is why that thing anti-cops hate happens. The cop gets legal council. Blasphemy.
The case then may go to a Grand Jury. In most cases it depends on the cojones of the DA if they all go. Shrunk has no cojones ao they all go, even the obvious, in Multnomoh County. The Grand Jury does, should, do one of only two things. True Bill or No True Bill. Indictment or No Indictment. Hanging on the words "Not enough evidence to Indict" doesn't mean what those like "Susuan" think it does. People read a little to much into these statements.
(email verified)
Sun, Feb 10, 2008 at 04:34 AM
Pretty hard to decipher or make sence of anything you wrote WOW.
Your breaking up!! could not copy !!! Your crashing !!!
Your Gone --------------------------------------#
Your fried -------------------------------------#
(email verified)
Sun, Feb 10, 2008 at 09:52 AM
Oregon Officer, Another Officer, Sandy Resident, Spare Me;
Hey thanks for all your great comments and for your support. You are absolutely right! We should all be down on our knees thanking God above for giving us the best little police force money can buy. I don't care what our cops do either. Whats important is supporting them and backing them up whatever it is. Come on, fall in line. We need your support. Anything a cop does is good and if you can't accept that you should get the hell out of Sandy. Mayor Malone and Chief Skelton are saints and we should all whorship them. Anyone that criticizes a cop is a criminal and should be locked up right away. These critics are probably the same cowards tht don't want to kill the enemy in Iraq. I just don't understand how anyone could find fault with shooting an unarmed naked man. Everyone knows that naked people are dangerous. So what if Bergin drives drunk and all loaded up on dope. These guys are professionals and are trained to drive drunk. Don't worry about it, it's none of your business. These heroes are out there every day risking their lives to protect us. Give them a break. They have a hard job and need to get drunk like everyone else once in a while. You people just don't understand how hard it is being a heroe everyday.
Quit picken on Bill; He's a human for Christ Sake. Leave Bill alone, leave him alone!!!!!!
(email verified)
Sun, Feb 10, 2008 at 10:31 AM
Really sad that we have nothing better to do than dredge up old news. If Officer Bergin felt despondant and unstable when few people knew of this incident, he is sure to feel even more so now that the Sandy News feels compelled to "go public" with his personal life. How many of us would like our most embarrassing moments in life plastered across the front page of a newspaper? A drunken argument with a girlfriend, driving when we know we shouldn't, saying things we do not mean, taking medication because we feel depressed. All of these are things that many of us have done. Should an article be written about us as well? As far as I can see, there are two differences between us and Officer Bergin. One, he is a cop and two, he killed someone in the line of duty. Thank God most of us don't have jobs that require us to make life and death decisions. I say, leave the guy alone and let him try to get on with his life.
(email verified)
Sun, Feb 10, 2008 at 02:08 PM
If this officer had worked for Lake Oswego Police, he would be immediately promoted to Sergeant. If the DUII arrest had accompanied a Domestic Violence charge, he would be promoted to Lieutenant.
(email verified)
Sun, Feb 10, 2008 at 03:33 PM
Funny how DPSST can be ok with cops committing crimes, and they still get to keep their jobs and certifications, but they will revoke another officers certification over a rumor? It just doesn't make sense? When we continue to allow criminals to be cops, no wonder why our society is so ----ed up! Then the Chief awards his misconduct by making him a field training officer?? I guess it is still the good ole boy system at Sandy PD....my guess is many officers there feel the same and are disgusted by this pathetic display of misconduct that gets rewarded when he should have lost his job. What a disgrace to the city of Sandy...
(email verified)
Sun, Feb 10, 2008 at 03:41 PM
To "" You're kidding right? If not, WOW. As far as plastering our lives for all to see... If you do something that is AGAINST THE LAW, of course it will be in the paper. If you do not break the law you have nothing to worry about. Enough said. So; therefore, don't get tangled with SPD. When are elections for city officials anyway?
(email verified)
Sun, Feb 10, 2008 at 09:05 PM
SO WHAT IF HE"S HUMAN! He arrests people for doing what he did and believe me, their errors and mistakes don't just get quietly swept under the rug. As an officer he should be held even MORE accountable to the law than anyone else! This is the best example he could set for our children? For crying out loud, FIRE HIM and NEVER let him in ANY law emforcement position agian! I'd feel this way even if he was my brother! Sandy Police Dept and city council is as corrupt as it gets!
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 01:37 AM
I'm very surprised to read so many comments from Mr. Bergin's neighbors, attesting to what a "great guy" he is. This is a man who was caught trying to break into his ex-girlfriend's house at 3am. He was drunk, and had been driving that way, putting people's lives in danger. He told the police that his own town runs on the "good old boy system," where he would not be held accountable for his actions. I guess that's pretty obvious from the fact that he's still working.
I would like to see a house cleaning. I do not think this man should work here. I do not think H. Skelton should either. I do not think any "good old boy system" should exist in Sandy, and I am surprised that anyone else would think otherwise. I also do not think that anyone who was terrorizing a woman at 3am should ever be allowed to carry a gun.
This is really shocking.
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 02:46 AM
Yes, Mr. Bergin is human and makes mistakes. Like driving drunk, even thought he pulls over 3 drunk drivers per week as his job, because he knows it is dangerous. Like trying to break into his EX girlfriend's house. Like lying to a fellow police officer.....Anyway the part I take offense with is "has pulled over plenty of drunken cops and havs given them a ride home" and Sandy is still the good old boy system and he could just go to detox or home". Is a drunk driver who is a cop less dangerous on the roads than the rest of us regular citizens?!? I'm just saying.....
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 02:48 AM
The problem with Bergin's DUII is what double standard was there?!!!!! What are you talking about?!!!!!! He was arrested for DUII, taken to the Jail, charged by the DA. He ultimately went diversion and paid a court fine!!!!! This is exactly what a citizen gets on a first time DUII!!!!! Quit using the terms double standard and above the law. He was handled like any citizen!!!!
As far as the Kaady shooting? Has anyone heard anything on a tox report from his blood? Good god folks. If I saw a human being acting as Kaady was, the first thing I would be thinking is he is on PCP.
Let it rest.
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 03:32 AM
RE: "" Oregon officer, another officer, sandy residents, spare me:
Chris Crocker is that you? Have you moved on from Brittany to SPD?
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 03:40 AM
I'll re-phrase so some anti-cop doesn't get the wrong idea. There was no problem that there was no double standard. The problem is that people are making it out as if there was one. There was not, it was handled like any other.
Many officers have been involved in shootings and yes all of them will face some challenges recovering, some worse than others. Divorces, sleep disorders, personality changes. Do you just throw them away?
I would imagine that Bergin's "prescription meds" were issued after the shooting.
Maybe the public shoot strike a deal with cops everywhere. If you are involved in a shooting, we will retire you regardless of your age. Wow, there's a bargain for the tax-payer. How about rehabilitating them.
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 03:40 AM
"should strike a deal", no not a slip as some smartA$$ would try and say. Just pi$$ed off at morons.
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 03:42 AM
Dear "", I guess you aren't paying attention.I'll try to make it more simple so you can understand. There was no double standard in Sherwood when Bergin was arrested. The double standard is alive and well in Sandy where our cops pull over drunken cops and take them home instead of jail where the rest of us would get to go.
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 03:52 AM
I can vaguely recall when Fouad Kaady was unfortunately
killed a few years back, and like most people here, I took the word of the Mayor, Chief of Police Skelton, etc. etc. that it was an unfortunate incident and really thought no more on it, other than to extend my sincere condolences to the family.
Too often our generation is prone to blindly accept word
of our authority figures without much questioning. I know I have, as has my family and friends. My grandson, who is student at PSU in Portland, has long leveled criticism at me for such ease of trust in such people, and I'd smile and go on about my life...indifferent to what may really be going on.
Now that this report has come out, my grandson has urged
me to watch the dvd movie he has obtained (which I'd not
watched earlier when it was offered as I didn't want to see my "sacred cows" diminished) and put me to reading what is considered "alternative news" at the Portland Independent Media Center's website. Wow! What an fantastic job a lady by name of "Cat" has done in giving in-depth reporting and analyze of what is being found out and revealed. I urge all of you Sandy residents to do likewise.
We need to be "educated" and not stand for just simple easy and convenient "indoctrination" from our authority figures.
My garden club meets at my home this week and I'm going
to show the dvd concerning the Fouad Kaady incident to all my fellow club members (as the meeting is at my home as I am hosting this week's meeting) and see if we can't spark some serious conversation and get up to speed on what is really going on here in Sandy.
We have children, grandchildren and wide assortment of friends and acquaintances that we need to look out for in this community and the only way to be a real life participant in community is to be "educated" on the happenings and not take other's word for it.
I trust you folk will do the same as our community's well-being is at stake!
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 03:58 AM
Like at least one other commenter, I am surprised to read any support for an officer who has broken the law, and then tried to use his badge to escape responsibility for that. I think the comments in favor must all be coming from the Sandy police department.
Regarding the shooting of Kaady, I have read the complete reports on Portland Indymedia, and his toxicology report evidentally was clean. So I am inclined to believe that what Bergin did there was pretty much murder. Portland Indy shared the police reports, written by Bergin himself, in which he admits that Kaady was "just sitting on the ground," with his "hands in his lap," and he did not have any weapon when Bergin began deploying his taser at him. So I do think it's time to look a lot more closely at what is happening in the Sandy police department. Anyone else who is not a police officer who takes the time to read the police reports will come to the same conclusion.
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 04:09 AM
And they keep on making them, Marcus! Some of these paragons of virtue that are being defended here as fine, upstanding examples of humanity are now making death threats against an independent film maker, because she had the temerity to tell the truth (on you tube, it is "28 seconds, the killing of Fouad Kaady). As I understand it, she has moved on to greener pastures, but nonetheless, they get all exercised when they are called out for violent acts, and yet, someone who merely speaks truth to power is denounced as a witch, and a wanted poster "deliver her head..." is being posted by Sandy murderers.
Guess what guys? You are only making it much worse. Watch your back door Marcus, soon they will be after you!
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 05:39 AM
If I were Bergin, I'd tell those who were supposedly defending me here to be quiet. Don't they sense the irony of their statements?
If, as one commenter wrote above (and others paraphrased countless times), "[t]he officer is obviously having trouble with the shooting," do you really want to put him back into the same situation ... and just hope for the best?
If, "[s]ubstance abuse and self-destrucive behavior is common in PTSD cases," and if "PTSD is a lifelong condition, it will not just 'go away,'" should a person suffering from such lifelong problems now be expected to react appropriately on (and off) this very stressful job?
If the drugs used to treat these problems, "increase the risk of suicidal thinking and behavior," and have allegedly already affected Bergin so, is it wise to give a gun - and the ultimate discretion to use it - to him?
If Bergin is going to freak-out over something he reads in the paper and/or the negative comments of some people (largely the same ones who've been making negative comments since the Kaady shooting, I might add) - is it logical to assume he can withstand the verbal, physical and mental jibes and abuse he likely suffers every day on the job?
In short, it seems we all - "cop hater" and "cop apologist" - agree here. Bergin, FOR WHATEVER REASON, shouldn't be allowed to be placed, fully armed, into frightening, stressful and life-threatening situations where he is required to make good decisions at a moment's notice.
Most people don't want to crucify Bergin (and Willard, Skelton, Malone, et al) for the shooting of Fouad Kaady. Nothing will ever bring that young man back. They want transparency, accountability, and the assurance that those in such positions of power learn from their errors and do their very best to avoid such tragedies from happening again.
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 06:28 AM
Once again I would like to see this "clean toxicology report" as the family already stated that he had THC in his system. As of yet the main stream nedia has not reported on the tox report, Portland Tribune? PTSD is common in officer involved shootings, and I believe that Bergin was on leave at the time of his DUII. Once again do we dispose of any cop who is involved in a shooting? Get a grip, a grand jury selected from citizens, saw the whole investigation and heard evidence. Once again I highly doubt that 90% of the posters here have ever investigated a parking violation let alone a homicide. There is much to the frame of mind of the officer at the time and as some of you lawyers here are so knowledgable, the courts do give some weight to the circumstances of the decision being made in seconds. Get over it.
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 06:53 AM
God bless you Bill Bergin and good luck in your new job whatever it is.
I think it's safe to say that the jury is in on this one.
I would say it's time for special elections in Sandy.
Perhaps more imprtantly, we need to pull the plug on Salem Attorney Mowry. Demand through legal action if nessasary, that no more city funds go to this amoral scheister lawyer. It's time for our city to own up to it's sins and move ahead with a new Mayor, a new Chief, and some new officers whose names don't end with "Skelton".
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 07:00 AM
Hey here is a blast of reality. After reading a list of 9-1-1 calles regarding Kaady I noted a few interesting things. One mentioned that he might be armed. Sitting on the ground, naked or not, I can think of a few places to hide a weapon. One caller described the "super strength" he displayed when he "walked up on the roof of a ford explorer". One caller stated that he looked combative and had assualted a citizen that tried to help him. How about one caller who stated "a wild look in his eyes and growling"? Based on the information in those calls I can not think of a fire department or ambulance crew that would rush in to treat until the person has been secured by police.
Kaady was bleeding quite a bit and based on the 9-1-1 calls was basically acting in a combative manner. Grant it not on the arrival of Bergin and Willard but one would assume that it might escalate if physical contact was made. They advised him to place himself flat on the ground and one would assume that this was for handcuffing. pretty standard based on the information at hand. Kaady refused to comply with verbal commands, lawful verbal commands. Saying a cop should have known this or should have known that about future findings from an autopsy doesn't fly.
Once he failed to comply they deployed their taser. Hmmmm. Let's leave it at this, cop wrestling with bloody subject and exposed to what?
Here is the long and short, everyone today operates on the assumption that if it is not my bodily fluid I do not touch it. At least not without proper protection. As of yet cops do not travel in bio-hazard suits and donning protection at this point was probably not an option. Good assumption.
A cop should not, nor should the public expect an officer to risk exposure to HIV, HEP or any other bloodborne pathogen.
Thus, wrestling match with potentially combative and bleeding subject who is refusing to comply with lawful commands or Taser? Probably Taser. Body fluids in todays day and age could be considered a dangerous weapon in and of themselves
Several years ago CCSO Sgt. Damon Coates was shot in the face by a teenager, a mental teenager. Sgt. Coates was required to leave police work due to his injury. Fundraisers had to be held to meet some of the financial requirements for his family. Disgusting, fundraisers? Where were all of you? And yes, this after all the wonderful insurance and disability payments.
Cops have families and lives, try explaining to your spouse and children that you are infected with HIV or HEP because you chose to wrestle with a subject that all indications were that he was or would be combative. You were skinned up or cut during the fight and subsequently exposed and infected. Nice. Some of you would say, "Well you knew the risks when you took the job". Ok, I'll by that but they have the right to minimize the risk.
Bottom line is that there was enough information on Kaady from the first call at 658am to the culmination of events at 204pm, that indicated he had a much greater issue other than just wrecking his car. None of you have answered why there were calls concerning his behavior from 658am on. It might be that the original issue caused the car wreck.
It is not a black and white case, it is a group of people who truly believe that your police officers are expendable and that they should risk it all for the poor drug user or mentally unbalanced person. I think not. If you don't like that thought proces then maybe you should throw on a uniform and a badge and give it a shot. Let's hear how all of you would have handled it.
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 07:44 AM
Interesting addition from another article. Once the Taser was fired, Kaady pulled the barbs from his skin while laughing. Problem here as to what an officer is facing. Not very normal behavior from someone who was just tasered. Scary behavior actually.
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 07:48 AM
Indeed, how WOULD you handle it,if your entire body was burned to toast, you were bleeding, in shock (probably dieing,) and some moron, who was hired to protect and to serve was torturing you with fifty thousand volt darts, because you refused, or were unable to, prone your badly burned, naked, and (according to officers, unarmed, and "Catatonic" please look that word up!!!)???HOW WOULD YOU HANDLE IT? Since we are asking, officer, how do you justify you and your friends posting death threats all over your fair city, asking for the head of someone who spoke truth to your power? Let me warn you, because that person is out of town for awhile, that some of us out here are not easily intimidated, and many are not unarmed, or naked, or burned senseless. We are, however, very capable of making your life miserable, or worse. STOP THREATENING OUR PEOPLE, and clean your own ranks, before we do.
Good for you, Marcus, for having the guts to speak truth. These automatons need to be sorted out.
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 10:40 AM
How Would You Handle It:
Congrats; You perhaps provide the best evidence and reason for stricter screening and higher standards of those serving the public in law enforcement. Your cops are irrational, paranoid, cowardly, scardy-cats. We certainly don't need them anymore than we need your moronic excuses and stupid reasoning. Thanks for making the case for cop reform .
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 11:10 AM
You two should start the reform by applying to be Police Officers. I am sure you would do a fine outstanding job. Sounds like you have already been trained and have a handle on it.
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 12:17 PM
Nice how you posters dodged the question posed "How would you handle it". You also dodged the writer's approach to the problem and discounted anything that he/she said. Let's hear back from you guys because many of us are interested now. Cop reform? Amazing that you would suggest that based on your writing. You need to read what is being written and respond with something instead of lashing back with nothing but emotion. Let's hear big guy. Given all of the information that was available "at the time, not now". What would you have done? And the guy above you? Cukoo Cukoo.
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 12:42 PM
Yea, it's always the same with you guys that live by that God Almight Creed: Comply or Die. Submit or be killed.
Fouad Kaady had a much better reason for not complying with an order to roll over on hot pavement onto his already burnt stomach than Bergin did for his refusal to do a field sobriety test or blow when first asked at the station.
You see, we are dealing with two very different sets of standards here. First, we have a set of standards that have been widely accepted and sold to the public through the media for the disenfranchized in our (siciety). We have margainalized huge segments of society one at a time, and given them less consideration under the law and placed less value on their freedom and life than that of other citizens we consider our peers.. Once this is accomplished, it's easier to sleep at night when you here that a state funcionary (cop) has extinguished one more life from the the face of the earth. At least it wasn't one of us.
Just one more mentally handicapped, drug addicted, homeless, or minority race person unfortunate enough to have had a run in with The Man.
How would we feel if we heard that Sherwood officers tased and shot Bergin for failure to comply? Which brings up another point not mentioned in this article. Was Bergin Packin a concealed weapon when driving around drunk under the influence of mind altering intoxicants and trying to break into an ex-girlfriend's house? Someone needs to look into this question as well. If so, isn't there some provision in our law that pertains to carrying a concealed weapon during the commission of a crime. For some reason, none of our cop apologist have made any mention of this all too important issue. To be sure the Sherwood cops can be commended on the job they did, but did they stop short of really holding Bergin accountible?
Hey, we have to maintain some order in society, and someone has to enforce the law and protect citizens from
those stronger, less ethical people that would do us harm;My question: Is that what is going on here when we have two fully trained officers armed with multiple weapons tasing and shooting and unarmed, badly injured, naked man, seven times for failure to comply?
Who is overseeing this use of deadly Force? Do we the public have a say in how our authorities exercise this power we have given them? I'm afraid that over time we have gradually relegated way too much control to those making and enforcing our laws.
No one knocks on your door to ask your opinion or to invite you to a session of our state legislature when
new laws are being enacted giving more power to the state and diminishing the rights of citizens. To be sure, the cops have their poweful PACs and unions working down in Salem everyday our legislature is in session. Not every law they pass is bad, but many are and there is no firewall or protection against this.
My point is not that all cops are bad or that there should be no system of authority in place. Nor is my point that we should feel sorry for or give criminals special rights or considerations. We have a lot of sociopathes that have absolutely nothing to offer society and that wouldn't think twice about victimizing you or me to satisfy some selfish need. I have, and no one else should have the least pitty for those types.
My point is let;s start being a little more discriminate about who belongs on which side of the line. Being a politician, a chief of police, a cop,
an ex-cop, a district attorney, a law maker, a lobbyist,
a judge, or a member of the local chamber of commerce, should not excuse you or make you unaccountible for your actions. Let's put an end to these artificial standards that in reality are more like high school popularity contest. Let's hold our precious members of society to the same standards and code of conduct as those we margainalize.
When cops chase a mentally handicapped person down in broad daylight and kick him to death in front of wittnesses, let's have a public hanging. Hey, it was good enough for Saddam, it should be good enough for these cold blooded killers. The Kaady case may be a little more complex than the James Chasse case, but none the less, it was a travesty of power and justice and the accountibility is still forthcoming.
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 01:34 PM
Hey thanks for all your great comments and for your support. You are absolutely right! We should all be down on our knees thanking God above for giving us the best little police force money can buy. I don't care what our cops do either. Whats important is supporting them and backing them up whatever it is. Come on, fall in line. We need your support. Anything a cop does is good and if you can't accept that you should get the hell out of Sandy. Mayor Malone and Chief Skelton are saints and we should all whorship them. Anyone that criticizes a cop is a criminal and should be locked up right away. These critics are probably the same cowards tht don't want to kill the enemy in Iraq. I just don't understand how anyone could find fault with shooting an unarmed naked man. Everyone knows that naked people are dangerous. So what if Bergin drives drunk and all loaded up on dope. These guys are professionals and are trained to drive drunk. Don't worry about it, it's none of your business. These heroes are out there every day risking their lives to protect us. Give them a break. They have a hard job and need to get drunk like everyone else once in a while. You people just don't understand how hard it is being a heroe everyday.
Quit picken on Bill; He's a human for Christ Sake. Leave Bill alone, leave him alone!!!!!!
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 01:44 PM
"Most people don't want to crucify Bergin (and Willard, Skelton, Malone, et al) for the shooting of Fouad Kaady. Nothing will ever bring that young man back. They want transparency, accountability, and the assurance that those in such positions of power learn from their errors and do their very best to avoid such tragedies from happening again."
"Madam Hatter"
Thank you Madam;
For your efforts towards a kinder and gentler treatment
of those working so hard to excuse the behavior of cops willing to shoot first and ask questions later. Nothing will ever bring Fouad back, and no amount of mean spirited attack against the cop establishment will bring positive change.
Maybe it's just semantics, but you seem to be suggesting that the very people supporting and working so hard to minamalize or justify this inexcusable act of exacting violence against an unarmend citizen, be allowed to escape real punishment. (Crucifixtion)
I have to admit that I have a certain amount of empathy
for both officers involved in this shooting. I believe that a federal trial will reveal that they acted in accordance with very poor training recieved that reflects a total disregard and prejustice towards the life of a large segment of our population and often errors on the side of making rash, and unwarrented decisions based on fear.
This empathy does no extend to all those in power that have "conspired and lied" to protect a municipality from accountibility and protect the status quo regardless of how much public outcry there might be. We know from reading the transcripts and police reports what really happened to Fouad Kaady that fateful day.
He was killed by two nervous, scared, badly trained cops that came upon a situation they couldn't handle.
The real crime came after words and is oh so visable in this latest incident. It's like a crime family that has taken that vow of silence and self protection. No one has seen any honesty or forthright account of the actions of the Sandy PD. The first thing we saw was the isolation of the two officers involved in this shooting. We didn't know their names or anything else. Everything got rinsed through this fine filter that involved top experts on officer involved shootings.
Sheriff Roberts, your county commissioners, chief Skelton, Clackamas county peace officer's association, County and munipality attornies.
We then got the fabricated story that all of a sudden included this accusation that Fouad was yelling,"I'm going to kill you", and the report from Craig Roberts stating that no department policies were violated.
Come on, Let's get a grip here. We have a crime and we have obvious conspiritors here trying to circumvent the law. These criminals aren;t the ones that did the shooting.
These are the much more dangerous criminals that are trying to cover up a crime in the interest of being able to committ this crime and get away with it at anytime it might serve their interest in the future.
\
These are the people MADAM that do desrve to be crucified, prosecuted, and held accountible to the full extent of the law.
Let's not get weak in the knees here. We aren't talking about the defenceless, or those pure of heart. We are talking about blatant, self-serving, sociopathic criminals that deserve no more than piss on their graves. This is the enemy.
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 03:25 PM
"Most people don't want to crucify Bergin (and Willard, Skelton, Malone, et al) for the shooting of Fouad Kaady. Nothing will ever bring that young man back. They want transparency, accountability, and the assurance that those in such positions of power learn from their errors and do their very best to avoid such tragedies from happening again."
"Madam Hatter"
Thank you Madam;
For your efforts towards a kinder and gentler treatment
of those working so hard to excuse the behavior of cops willing to shoot first and ask questions later. Nothing will ever bring Fouad back, and no amount of mean spirited attack against the cop establishment will bring positive change.
Maybe it's just semantics, but you seem to be suggesting that the very people supporting and working so hard to minamalize or justify this inexcusable act of exacting violence against an unarmend citizen, be allowed to escape real punishment. (Crucifixtion)
I have to admit that I have a certain amount of empathy
for both officers involved in this shooting. I believe that a federal trial will reveal that they acted in accordance with very poor training recieved that reflects a total disregard and prejustice towards the life of a large segment of our population and often errors on the side of making rash, and unwarrented decisions based on fear.
This empathy does no extend to all those in power that have "conspired and lied" to protect a municipality from accountibility and protect the status quo regardless of how much public outcry there might be. We know from reading the transcripts and police reports what really happened to Fouad Kaady that fateful day.
He was killed by two nervous, scared, badly trained cops that came upon a situation they couldn't handle.
The real crime came after words and is oh so visable in this latest incident. It's like a crime family that has taken that vow of silence and self protection. No one has seen any honesty or forthright account of the actions of the Sandy PD. The first thing we saw was the isolation of the two officers involved in this shooting. We didn't know their names or anything else. Everything got rinsed through this fine filter that involved top experts on officer involved shootings.
Sheriff Roberts, your county commissioners, chief Skelton, Clackamas county peace officer's association, County and munipality attornies.
We then got the fabricated story that all of a sudden included this accusation that Fouad was yelling,"I'm going to kill you", and the report from Craig Roberts stating that no department policies were violated.
Come on, Let's get a grip here. We have a crime and we have obvious conspiritors here trying to circumvent the law. These criminals aren;t the ones that did the shooting.
These are the much more dangerous criminals that are trying to cover up a crime in the interest of being able to committ this crime and get away with it at anytime it might serve their interest in the future.
\
These are the people MADAM that do desrve to be crucified, prosecuted, and held accountible to the full extent of the law.
Let's not get weak in the knees here. We aren't talking about the defenceless, or those pure of heart. We are talking about blatant, self-serving, sociopathic criminals that desrve no more than piss on their graves.
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 03:26 PM
special election? GOOD IDEA!!? When can we as a concerned (with our very lives) community look forward to that?
just a girl.
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 08:19 PM
Most the cops I have spoke with agree that the Kaady shooting was a totally unnessasary, brutal killing and that it's follow up investigation was a travesty of justice aimed at covering up poor training as well as the facts of the case.
But that isn't really the issue we are dealing with here and now is it? Yes the Kaady shooting does relate to officer Bergin and his questionable fittness as an officer, but let's not get distracted. We are responding to a very well written article in the New Sandy Post about how a town's officials conspired to avoid accountibility to the public they serve and intentioally keep an age old good-ole-boy policy in place to spare one of their own.
If the Johnny come Latelies,
(How would you handle it, Interested in alternative endings, Don;t Rant) Are really interested in the facts of the Kaady shooting much has been written about it over the last couple of years and plenty of perfectly sane, and rational alternatives to tasing and shooting Kaady have been offered. There is also a good documentry film available online for free, that provides mostly direct officer testimony of the facts.
You ignorant, insensitive, violent, boot-lickers really annoy when you continue to suggest that killing and torturing were the only alternatives here.
I'm not going to waste my time explaining the many alternatives that professionally trained law enforcement personell have offered for this tragedy,
but here is just one:
When you come upon an unarmed, naked, badly injured victim in shock sitting in the road with skin and flesh hanging off his body that is threatening no one, you don't start screaming commands at him to roll over on his stomach. Next, if you are a poorly traind little coward afraid of getting blood on yourself and your best training hasn't provided you with a better alternative than saying," hey let's tase ths injured man, he's not complying with our lawful orders", you back off; contain the area, and wait untill someone with some guts and humanity such a fireman suited up in protective gear arrives to do the job you are incapable of doing. This is just one "alternative ending" for the "how would you handle it" freaks writing here. There are many others, including little things like "don't leave your loaded shotgun on the hood of your patrol vehicle when you arive at a scene like this.
If you wish to pretend you are reaaly "in the know" here and discredit those citizens asking for accountibility and a small measure of humanity, at least do your homework before you show up with your late report and comments.
(email verified)
Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 12:38 AM
I live just outside the city limits of Sandy, so I am not a legal resident of Sandy. I have been following these comments and articles about your PD since I moved into the care facility where I live. I don't agree with many of the comments, but I do feel that Sandy has a big problem with it;s reputation and city officials.
Although I cant do it myself, my suggestion is that someone contact your county clerk and get the paper work for a recall election of Mayor Malone. It's a pretty straight ahead process governed by law, and no one can refuse this effort.I get to town once a week to shop and visit with locals at the coffee shops or local watering holes. My perception is that many people have lost confidence in our PD and particularly in Malone and that collecting the needed signatures for a recall would be a realistic task. You can leave copies at the post office and local businesses for registered voters to sign. Most chamber members I have spoken with say that they would enthusiastically support this effort.
I'm sorry I can't do this myself, but I hope someone does.
(email verified)
Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 12:56 AM
COPY OF LETTER TO SHERWOOD JURISDICTION;
I will try to provide follow up info when I recieve an answer on this all important issue that was raised by a very alert citizen yesterday. I agree that this is a most serious question that demands an answer. J.C.
------------------------------------------------------
Dear administator;
Please forward this to your Police Department.
Dear Chief;
I live in the Sandy Oregon area and have recently been made aware of an arrest that took place in your jurisdiction on March 7th of 2007. The arrest according to a recent article in our local paper was for DUII and involved Bill Bergin of the Sandy PD.
I, like many citizens am concerned about this case. I think your department must be complimeted on a high level of professionalness, and for demonstrating an honest account of events surrounding the arrest of a fellow law enfoecement member.
I have one serious question that so far has not been addressed in any of the information provided to the public about this arrest. Could you please tell me if Officer Bergin was in posession of a concealed weapon at the time of his arrest. Bergin is known for carrying a concealed weapon and I think the circumstances of this arrest demand a full account of how serious this situation could have been. I also believe there may be some issue of Oreon law in regards to carrying a weapon during the commission of a crime. Could you please provide me an answer to this question? Thanks & best regards;
Jack Crabtree
(email verified)
Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 01:42 AM
I doubt this comment will remain for long, but here goes...
To "Take No Prisoners" -
First off, let me say that of the 5 comments I posted on this article, the Post only allowed 2 to appear here. As far as I know, none of the comments they pulled violated any of their rules; they were simply more critical and strongly worded than the 2 they allowed to remain. So please, don't misconstrued my meaning... it's been selectively edited by the "free and impartial" press at the Post.
I believe passionately that all those involved in the Kaady shooting and the subsequent handling of the incident should be criminally prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. That includes both cops, Skelton, Malone, et al. Unfortunately, that did not happen. That is why the Kaadys have been forced to pursue this in the only way our legal system allows - through the civil courts. I'm delighted that they have retained Gerry Spence as their legal counsel, and am quite certain they will win a sizable award for damages.
I've written quite a bit here in the past and on other sites in support of the Kaadys. And I've been highly critical of the cops, the city and the Post in the past for what I believe to be their skewed reporting on this case. Perhaps that's why most of my comments no longer appear here on the Post's site.
My point is that I, who has been branded a "cop-hater" by those that criticize my views and comments - and unlike so many taking the opposite view - am opposed to violence and do not wish evil upon these people. I do not HATE them. I do not know them well enough to hate them. But I do not have to know them to hate what they did and are continuing to do.
I don't want to crucify them. That's barbaric. I want justice. I want accountability. I want change.
Are they bad people or good people who just screwed up? That's just semantics and entirely subjective. And it doesn't really matter. They screwed up, to put it very mildly. And to insult to injury, they refuse to acknowledge or apologize for it, and therefore give us zero assurance that they will work to stop it from happening again. I'm still flabbergasted and appalled that all those concerned have stated they would do nothing different if given the chance. I find that alone to be extremely disturbing and frightening.
The cover-up is by far, the most troubling aspect of the Kaady case. And the fact that the cops and the city kept Bergin's DUII a secret demonstrates that this mentality is alive and well in our little burg. How nice that Bergin wrote a letter of apology about his most recent escapades to his co-workers - but not to the taxpayers that provide his livelihood and to whom he has pledged to protect and serve.
(email verified)
Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 06:44 AM
Madam Hatter,
I'm glad you are "certain" that the Kaady's will win a sizable award for damages. You must be psychic!
If Mr. Kaady would have been anyone else, they wouldn't have the funds to hire Mr. Spence....that's what money gets you; expensive attorneys who probably pay people to comment on these message boards to skew the facts.
Please...no more longwinded responses...don't you have work to do?
(email verified)
Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 06:59 AM
So far "Take no Prisoners" and "John Q C" have not articulated any criminal act. And John Q C, with the information going into the confrontation I would like you to name one fire department that would rush straight in for treatment. If any say they would then they are liars. These guys won't tend to most drunks unless a cop is present. You state that he was threatening no one. You discount the 9-1-1 calls just prior to the confrontation stating that he was "combative", had a "wild look in his eyes" and displayed "super strength". Oh and the best "assaulted a citizen and is possibly armed". And by the way it is your camp that stated that it wasn't a "little Blood" it was a lot. Ever wrestled with a bloody person, not a very easy task. Kind of slippery. Since you are in the "know" then you should present all of the information.
I also do not choose to watch a sappy video produced by anti - police, anti - government conspiracy theorists who hand pick supposed cops with an axe to grind. Remember that just because a person is killed it does not mean that criminal charges are filed. You must articulate the crime, what is it? No one on here has articulated an alleged crime without omitting some pretty major considerations. Easy to due when you disreagrd some pretty cruicial factors that you can't explain.
Get a grip and don't let your washed up hippy anti-governmment stance cloud the issues.
(email verified)
Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 09:43 AM
Dear Madam;
Please excuse any misunderstanding of your first comments. You shine like a star and we love you for your humanity. Peace
(email verified)
Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 10:59 AM
Remember To Include All the Facts:
To engage in any kind of debate with you would mean coming down to your level of irrationality, and doing an idiot's two-step with you. Sorry, but I don't dance with drooling moronic sociopathes. Don't forget to take your OxyCodin.
To all the other Sandy citizens writing here, thanks for your support of truth and justice and a special thanks to those that provided depositions concerning the wanted poster from Sandy PD. This should be interesting reading for those that certify our cops and maintain professional standards.
(email verified)
Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 11:13 AM
Dear Madam;
Thanks for your comments and for the reminder that if we become like our enemy and all that we are against, they win! I would rather be giving my neighbors a warm handshake and hug than being at odds with them. I wish I could.
The point you make that I like the most is Bill Bergin's letter to his fellow officers. Wow, this is almost cult like. It seems we are dealing with a secret society that has it's own secret code of conduct, punishment, and communication. This in itself is really disturbing. It makes me wonder if Skelton is the high priest of some kind of wierd evil cult with bizarr practices whose members agree to fully submit to his whims in a Jim Jones type fashion. I have a feeling that we are just beginning to scratch the surface of what is going to be an ongoing and shocking expose of weirdness. I can almost picture Malone and Skelton wearing long robes and being the grand masters of satanic ceremonies where our public servants injest illegal drugs and swear allegiance to their masters and take oathes of loyalty.
Where is the allegiance to the public. We have truly been duped by those that are much more dangerous than those petty criminals they constantly remind us we are being protected from.
(email verified)
Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 01:03 PM
who is "Blah Blah Blah...."? Some double-digit IQ holder
that is stupid enough to be talked into writing such tripe
craziness by his/her more intelligent fellow Bergin-Sandy-
cop apologists who've run out of handles for writing them-
selves? That statement has to be the all-time stupidest
statement I've seen here at THE SANDY POST and you should
get a prize...with the prize being...served with a lawsuit
for Tort Claim and then watch your big butt wiggle as you
run to your lawyer to seek a duck 'n' cover. Let's all
cast our vote for the winner of the STUPIDEST COMMENT to
ever be posted here...
(email verified)
Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 01:08 PM
Thanks for your comments PIO. You might be on to something here. Why is it that those of us paying taxes for city services are left out in the cold here? Where is our apology and where is our open, transparent government. Are these goons taking lessons from the Bush administration? I am apalled too.
(email verified)
Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 01:17 PM
Need we say anything else about cop reform "Mr. Include All The Facts"? Here are a few facts. Go ahead and check them. Call the court. I don't think you are going to get away with conning the public much longer.
STEVE HYSON: CCSO DETECTIVE/ president CC cop union
ARRESTED; ASSAULT , DOMESTIC ABUSE 2008
DON MAINERO: CCSO DEPUTY
ARRESTED, CONVICTED; SEX ABUSE, CONTRIBUTING TO DELINQUENCY OF MINOR/2007
BRYAN LAVIGNE: CCSO DEPUTY
ARRESTED, CONVICTED; ASSAULT ATTEMPTED STRANGULATION ON MINOR/2007
PERRY MARSHALL; CCSO PAROLE OFFICER
ARRESTED; ASSAULT, SPOUSAL ABUSE, KID NAPPING/2007
RAYMOND LOVELACE: CCSO DEPUTY/ jail sargeant
ARRESTED, CONVICTED; FORGERY, TAMPERING WITH DRUG RECORDS/2007
DAVID VERBOS: CCSO DEPUTY
ARRESTED, CONVICTED: ARMED ROBBERY 13 YEARS PRISON/ 2006
BILL BERGIN: SANDY PD
ARRESTED; DUII/2007
(email verified)
Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 01:25 PM
Congratulations Blah Blah Blah;
Your the winner!!
(email verified)
Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 01:29 PM
Blah Blah Blah wrote: "If Mr. Kaady would have been anyone else, they wouldn't have the funds to hire Mr. Spence....that's what money gets you; expensive attorneys..."
I am quite certain that Mr. Spence is working on a contingent fee basis with the Kaady family. Under that arrangement, Spence will not take any money unless and until he wins his case and earns a money award from the City of Sandy. If he wins a money award, he will probably take anywhere from 25% to 40% percent off the top.
This is about the only way that most human plaintiffs can get access to the courts today.
(email verified)
Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 01:45 PM
Thanks none. Knowing Spence's reputation he may be doing this pro-bono as well. He is a good man and has probably done as much or more in the area of securing justice for poor people threatened with being ground under the heal of the winners.
(email verified)
Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 01:56 PM
PS; hang on to that wanted poster from Sandy PD. It should be worth a few million bucks at the Kaady trial.
I understand signed copies are already going for a few thou on Ebay. Thanks Malone and Skelton. Let's see your spin-doctor Bruce Mowery talk his way out of this.
Gee, it must be another one of those pschological plos to discredit a whole department. Oh my. Dear dear dear.
More OxyCodin Ra Ra Ra Bang Bang---Bang Bang Bang
(email verified)
Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 02:05 PM
Whoa Citizen Kane,
Blah is just voicing an opinion, such as yourself. Are you the only one allowed to do so? Served with a lawsuit? Please. If that were the case, then many people who have made comments here would also be served.
I read these posts for sheer entertainment; sometimes they are better than any novels I've read lately!
I love the name calling, adults acting like children. It's a sad day when people have to insult anonymous people on a message board to make themselves feel better.
If that's the only way they can feel more important, then thank goodness for the first amendment!!!
Have fun, kids!
(email verified)
Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 02:24 PM
Yes, in fact, Spence is doing this for nothing but the pleasure of frying Bergin and Willard, and their supervisors.
(email verified)
Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 11:48 PM
This comment is for Bill's neighbor who thinks he's a great guy, ect... "he's only human"?....So are rapists and pedophiles you jerk! The law is the law and officers have to abide by them too and when they break law as serios as this they should be stripped of their badge and uniform. Sandy has always been like this though, corrupt and helpful to the perpetrators!
(email verified)
Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 12:43 AM
Is it me or does he look a little bit like Yoda in his arrest pictures?
(email verified)
Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 01:46 AM
Thanks Mark Twain, you make some good points. I think we will all feel better and less emotional after the Kaady Trial. It's been hard knowing these last couple of years just how sad the state of law enforcement is in both Clackamas County and Sandy. Whats been the most upsetting has been wittnessing how those we pay to represent us have done everything in their power to circumvent the truth and responsibility for our public servants. Now that we have a federal investigation going on we should start seeing indictments soon for Sheriff Roberts, Harold Skelton, and all those that been responsible for this sad state of affairs.
We cant just blame the cops here. They are backed into a corner somewhat because at the same time they have the public demanding honesty and accountibility, it seems they have city and county officials are encouraging them to lie and resist any efforts towards transparency.
I'm afraid we are dealing with a pretty long history of blatant corruption throughout Clackamas county.
Fortunately there are a few well placed people in law enforcement that have maintained dignity, pride, and a sense of ethics, that are rebelling against this institutional corruption and coming forward with testmony. It seems the code of silence may have finally been broken and that a lot of damning evidence will surface throughout this investigation and at the Kaady trial that will do a lot to bring down this house of cards. A big thanks to all those citizens doing their part to bring our officials to justice and much gratitude to those officers and deputies coming forward with depositions detailing a shopping list of official misconduct.
(email verified)
Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 05:49 AM
I have never seen a arrest report placed in a paper in such a manner. One must question who bought this arrest to their attendtion, for what purpose. Was it through an indivual who knew the Kaady's lawyer who leaked the inform to someone who maybe have there own problems with the Sandy Police? How can Malone have no comment because of the on going law suit, then have a comment.
If you think you can do a better job ran for Mayor of Sandy a volunteer position--no pay. I am sure you could tell everyone how you really-- would we vote into office. I do not think anyone in their right mind would vote into that office. Petition the citizens of Sandy to see what type of support you would get.
Go to the city to state your opinion about Chief Skelton, I am sure that we could find a thousand citizens that would tell you just what they think of you. Come forward from you little closet let us know who you really are--a mouse chewing on a piece of cheese in the dark. Please come forward so we can see who you maybe-- better yet the Post can put you picture on the front page so we know who you are-- the citizens who really care help ran this city, yes we pay taxes. I would hope the city fights the Kaady suit all the way -- do not let the bad guys win this one.
(email verified)
Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 08:56 AM
Another true Moron terrorist
(email verified)
Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 09:06 AM
Some other idiot that thinks our public servants should get away with breaking the law and having city officials cover it up. This is pathetic. I hope this person reads the article about the Shelly Uptain Conviction and sentence. Compare these two stories and then ask yourself why so many cops and officials want to minimize and keep secret this story about a serious DUII involving other misconduct very unbecoming of a cop. Which side of the law are our cops and mayor on?
(email verified)
Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 09:14 AM
the pictures of Bergin depict one who is fighting with a
ghost and trying to drown this fight with drinking...???
(email verified)
Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 12:29 PM
For those that want to see the real evidence of just how professional of an outfit we have at CCSO, Do an internet search for Clackamas County Swat Memeber:
William Bowman.
Bill was the deputy shot in the head and killed by his professional weapons instructor during swat team practice. The instructor supposedly didn't know he had a live round in his weapon. Others have wondered if maybe Mr. Bowman knew too much about the overt corruption within the ranks of CCSO. Could have been another Michael Frankie situation, but we'll never know.
Another good example you can read about concerning how fit your sheriff's office is would be to read the court decision in the two million dollar settlement that was awarded to CCSO's former sole Black Deputy, Carl Bell. This case detailed blatant racism within the department and an organized attempt to coceal it through deliberate perjury.. A jury of our peers found the evidence overwhelming, awarded a settlement, and then we saw our sleaze ball sheriff and county commisioneers still try to wiggle out of it and escape responsibility.
Yes, I'm afraid it's mostly corruption from the top on down. No reason to expect anything more from Sandy PD.
They are all part of the same club (CCPOA) and have no intention of ever being held accountible for their conduct. Ask too many questions, press too hard, or write an article like our friend Marcus did and you could end up like Bill Bowman or Michael Fankie.
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 05:39 AM
I think it is very funny that you can not agree with the situation or someone will make a rude comment right below it.
Everyone has a right to there opinion about what happened.
With the shooting I believe that the correct choice was made. Unless you were there or now every fact about what happened how you can say that they did not have any other choice but to shoot? Plus the court found that the police officer’s had made the correct choice. Kaady may have showed up unarmed, but that does not mean that he could not have gotten a hold of anything.
I think that with the shooting people can’t always believe what they read in the paper or what they hear second hand. No one truly wins in these situations on either side.
I believe with the DUI Bill did everything he was told to do to keep his job. He actually went above and beyond what he had to do. I know this for a fact. He was on leave at that time and had been. He also was willing to take any punishment that was given to him because he new he was wrong in what he did that night.
He did not return to work until he and the police department felt it was the right time. No one has hidden anything. The Mayor or the Chief can’t always make comments about what happen due to the pending law suits.
Bill went through allot after the shooting and it was not because he felt guilty about being wrong. It is because he is a kind person that had to make a choice that he would rather not ever have to make. Who would want to? I know that I would not want to.
I support the SPD, because if I need help that is who I would call.
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 06:01 AM
Just my opinion;
The most obvious thing in your comments is that you are totally willing to set aside all the facts and good reasoning so that you can desparately hold onto your preconcieved notions about how cops are never wrong about anything; even when they kill naked people or drive drunk.
You need to pull your head out of that other part of your anatomy. At No Time did any court find that Bergin and Willard made the "right Choice" when they shot. You are a pathetic idiot or liar to make this erronious statement. A Grand Jury decided after much heated debate and conflicting testimony that there was not enough evidence to move forward with a criminal indictment against the officers that shot Kaady. Don't you dare try to spin this with your naive, stupid statement. There were plenty of mistakes and wrong decisions made that led to the death of a man desparately in need of medical assistance; Not torture and execution.
And your naive, childish insistance that we can't make a judgment because we weren't there is moronic. I have interviewed most of the witnesses first hand myself and read police reports. You seem to be the only one going on false information in the paper and news and believing dishonest testimony coming from agencies with a history of lying to save their ass.
Please tell us what Bill has done that should allow him to keep his job. Ever been to a fatal crash caused by a drunk driver like Bill. These victims don't get a second chance. Why should Bill. My god, wake up!!!
Bill is a cop, but all evidence suggest that he is not a good cop and we need to be protected from Bill Bergin.
The tone of your letter makes you sound like you are in the high school age range and I respect your right to an opinion, but please, next time be more responsible and do the research. Also please understand that parents and authority are often wrong and that seeking the truth rquires mature independent thought.
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 06:42 AM
I came here because I found a link from a better article about what happened. This officer is clearly unfit for duty, and any police department/city that would keep him on duty is, indeed, "an old boy system" that is straight out of the movie Deliverance.
Regarding "the shooting" that people are discussing, the website that I came here from has lots of information about this. You might want to look here: http://fkaady.blogspot.com/2007/08/28-seconds-killing-of-fouad-kaady-now.html
The truth is, no one in their right mind could defend the shooting. The evidence is clear. The man was hurt, he was unarmed, he was in shock, he was unresponsive. Officer Bergin and another man shot him because they were gung-ho, they were wrong, they were hyped up, and they did not want to get blood on themselves. They reacted shockingly inappropriately. I find it very telling that the officers were never tested for drugs. I find it equally telling that the media still allows the impression that their victim was on drugs when the site I just referenced makes it clear that he was not.
This shooting was a homicide, and only an "old boy system" could have decided otherwise. And even disregarding the shooting (and why would we), Officer Bergin got drunk, took drugs, went to harass a woman in the middle of the night, was caught breaking into her house, and BROKE THE LAW. How is it possible that he is still a police officer? Why is Bernie Giusto being thrown out of law enforcement work in Multnomah county because of mere rumors, while this man is allowed to continue to carry a gun and wear a uniform when he has clearly and unquestionably broken the law and then attempted to use his badge to escape responsibility for that?
There are many questions that need to be raised about what is going on in the Sandy police department. I am surprised that so many Sandy police officers apparently have the spare time to sit around typing defenses for this criminal o this site. I would think they would be running around trying to find out what's happened to the department in which they work, and working to fix it. This department needs to be cleaned up and cleared out. It's shameful.
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 06:45 AM
Please take a good look at the above "MUG Shot".
To me it looks pretty satanic, and scary. Is this the person you want patrolling your neighborhood armed and dangerous? Is this the person you want to show up at your emergency or knock on your door in the middle of the night?
One point that has not been mentioned is that the most sophisticated and modern drug test currently in use are done with "hair Analysis" . I find it interesting with all we hear about drug use and drug gangs within law enforcment, that so many cops like Bergin shave their heads now-a-days. Uh, I wonder what this is all about-------------?
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 07:01 AM
Ding, ding! I knew I could count on you!
Once again, name calling like children! "Sandy Parent"?? Please. I'm sure you're not. If you are a parent, god help your children!
I love how if you don't agree with the Kaady supporters, you get called names. "Idiot, liar, and stupid". Wow. Impressive! Such maturity! There are other ways of writing in these posts to get your point across, without having to revert to elementary school insults.
Next thing I'll be reading on here is "I know you are, but what am I??"
Keep it up kids! It's so entertaining!
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 07:13 AM
You people up there are both comical and frightening. You embrace a young man caught growing marijuana and leaving cocaine out, potentially exposing this to his child. And you crucify another young man who was on leave from your police department arrested for DUII.
At least it sounds like he took his punishment, the same as anyone else would get, PLUS punishment from SPD.
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 07:31 AM
Simply Brilliant Mr. Twang, and you still had nothing to say. Maybe you should change your name to Mr. Vacant Lot, Mr. empty head, or Mr. Lloyds Woody.
Stick to the facts:
STEVE HYSON: CCSO DETECTIVE
ARRESTED; ASSAULT , DOMESTIC ABUSE 2008
DON MAINERO: CCSO DEPUTY
ARRESTED, CONVICTED; SEX ABUSE, CONTRIBUTING TO DELINQUENCY OF MINOR/2007
BRYAN LAVIGNE: CCSO DEPUTY
ARRESTED, CONVICTED; ASSAULT ATTEMPTED STRANGULATION ON MINOR/2007
PERRY MARSHALL; CCSO PAROLE OFFICER
ARRESTED; ASSAULT, SPOUSAL ABUSE, KID NAPPING/2007
RAYMOND LOVELACE: CCSO DEPUTY
ARRESTED, CONVICTED; FORGERY, TAMPERING WITH DRUG RECORDS/2007
DAVID VERBOS: CCSO DEPUTY
ARRESTED, CONVICTED: ARMED ROBBERY 13 YEARS PRISON/ 2006
BILL BERGIN: SANDY PD
ARRESTED; DUII
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 08:04 AM
"Sounds like he took his punishment". Just who are you trying to con? The one thing consistent here is that it is the cop supporters that display the most obvious signs of crminality and amorality in their attempts to decieve.. What was that punishment? Oh I see, it's secret. We can't tell you because it's a matter of national security. Oh yea; we've head this one fefore.
I bet you worked with our other local con artist Cory Pritchard that just went to prison for his crimes.
One would have to be pretty deranged to compare growing marijuana to drunk driving, and not one single thing in the arrest report you refer to said any cocaine was left where it could be accessed by a child. You are not only dishonest, you are also a sick devient that supports conduct that threaten public safety. Tell the Johnson family that buried their son how drunk driving cops should get that second chance their son will never get. And then tell us what rightious punishment was handed down to Bergin lying to an officer, harrassing an ex girl friend, attempting to break and enter house with a screw driver, interfering with an investigation by calling her three times when his phone prvileges were for calling his CCPOA lawyer. Kiss my ass you joker.
we've all had enough of you sociopathes without a conscience trying to convince us that your criminal pals are innocent. Better luck next time convict. Now get back in your cell.
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 08:24 AM
Thank you Ms. Morgan. It's about time someone told off all these creeps that are trying to make excuses and make light of serious criminal conduct by other cops.
Lets quit trying so hard to change the subject and start reforming our cops and their departments. First things first. Get rid of Bergin and fire his boss.
Today!!! Now!!!! No more excuses, no more pandering,
no more boot licking, no more authority whorship.
Lets start setting a real example for our kids
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 08:40 AM
"E.W." you wondered that so many Sandy police
officers apparently have the spare time to sit
around typing defenses for this criminal and I'd
well imagine it's their soccor-mom heifer's that
be sitting around on their big fat a$$es hunkered
down before a screen and pouncing on keyboard
anytime anyone dares write anything contrary to
their "talking points" as the dudes themselves are
much too stupid to compose such replies. Myself,
I think it's high time to convene a People's Court
and try Bergin and Willard and then procure the
necessary people to carry out the sentence that
is suitable for conviction of being "enemies of the
people" Let's get 'em, cause Sandy's so-called
"authorities" won't do anything but cover-up and
tell more lies upon those already told. Let's roll!
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 09:38 AM
Sounds like revolutions in the air and on the mind of Tee Hee. Right on Dude
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 09:54 AM
Sandy Residents;
Living in Clackamas I cannot form a very educated opinion about your area, but if you all are that concerned about this officer(and should be) the only recourse is to do what some citizen did to Bernie Guisto. (MC Sheriff)
YOU HAVE TO FILE A COMPLAINT WITH BPSST. The board on public safety standards and training could still strip him of his certification, going above the Chief, Mayor, City Council and whomever may object. If they were going to take away Guistos certification for not being totally honest and possibly lying they will likely strip him for the attempted burglary.
They have to investigate every complaint filed by a citizen and this is any citizens chance to get involved.
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 02:59 PM
E.W. is Elvis Wagontire is ECCW is....
Bill got the same punishment as anyone else would have gotten per his constitutional rights. As far as keeping his job, that is for the Department and DPSST to decide because not only was he off duty but on leave. I'm not condoning his behavior at all but why is it any of our business? He got arrestd in Sherwood and I bet if you lived in Sherwood that would have been mentioned in the Police Log.
I don't believe there was any "cover up" just like I wouldn't expect if you got arrested for DUII for it to be mentioned in a full article like this. Must be tough to be arm chair quarterbacked so much and held to a higher standard. I sure wouldn't want to do it and am sure no one here on this site would be able to do it either but we sure are quick to attack the ones who do.
And I'm sure just because I haven't called for Bill's public hanging in my post I will be called stupid, boot licker and anything else the majority on this site will come up with. Well, bring it because I support the few who walk the fine line of keeping society from chaos.
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 04:18 PM
Well let's see........ Why is it any of our business,
CJ, CWFLAK, or whatever your name is. Maybe you need to re-read the article again. Not just a simple DUII.
attempted B&E, harrassing an ex girl friend, lying to an officer, bragging that in Sandy "we just give drunk cops a ride home" and then using his lawyer phone privelege to further try to harrass his ex friend.
This is the same cop that was involved in the shooting of an unarmed, badly injured, naked man without justification. Many people mistakenly feel that the grand juries failure to indict Bergin or Willard means they did nothing wrong. This couldn't be further from the truth. The lack of criminal culpability is a long way from saying no wrong was done as I'm sure attorney Gerry Spence will show in civil court.
This guy is a cop and is expected to represent the public he serves in a professional manner and to be a little bit above those we pay him to protect us from.
We all have the right to know that those entrusted with life and death decisions, and the full power of the law can be trusted to use that power and judgment in a fair and responsible way. Please don't tell us that those few that walk that fine line to insure our safety are to be held in such high regard that they need answer to no one. It's not true and it's not just. Your attempts to give cops a free pass because they have such a hard job to do is irrational and makes no sense. You actually hurt law enforcement with your feeble auguments
and most good cops probably object as much as the public here does to lowering the professional standards required to serve the public.
Just in case you missed it earlier, below is a list of examples for why we need to hold Bill and those like him "accountible". Yes CJ, I support the few holding that line too.
STEVE HYSON: CCSO DETECTIVE
ARRESTED; ASSAULT , DOMESTIC ABUSE 2008
DON MAINERO: CCSO DEPUTY
ARRESTED, CONVICTED; SEX ABUSE, CONTRIBUTING TO DELINQUENCY OF MINOR/2007
BRYAN LAVIGNE: CCSO DEPUTY
ARRESTED, CONVICTED; ASSAULT ATTEMPTED STRANGULATION ON MINOR/2007
PERRY MARSHALL; CCSO PAROLE OFFICER
ARRESTED; ASSAULT, SPOUSAL ABUSE, KID NAPPING/2007
RAYMOND LOVELACE: CCSO DEPUTY
ARRESTED, CONVICTED; FORGERY, TAMPERING WITH DRUG RECORDS/2007
DAVID VERBOS: CCSO DEPUTY
ARRESTED, CONVICTED: ARMED ROBBERY 13 YEARS PRISON/ 2006
BILL BERGIN: SANDY PD
ARRESTED; DUII
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 01:38 AM
Thanks Lloyd for making some very good points and being civil about it. I just went to Shelly Uptain's sentencing for killing one of our local residents last week. Unfortunately Mr. Johnson will never get the second chance that CJ thinks Officer Bergin is entitled to. I'm glad Marcus wrote this article and think our whole society would benefit from a more transparent government. We've all seen what can happen to a great nation when citizens ignore the actions of a thoroughly corrupt government. It might be too late to save our nation from the ravages of the Bush crime family, but at least we can try to clean up Clackamas County Peace Officers Association.
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 01:55 AM
Steve Hyson; President of Clackamas County Peace Officers Association, has recently started a benevolent foundation that among other things will be spending big bucks on a bronse memorial for Clackamas county cops.
Please give Steve a call at the sheriffs office,(503-655-8218) and ask Steve if they can use some of their tax-deductable funding to errect a bronse Statue and memorial for Fouad Kaady who was shot and killed by two CCPOA members while waiting for medical treatment.
You might also ask steve to make a donation to your local battered women's shelter. Steve was arrested last month in Vancouve WA. for assault on his wife. He reportedly tried to force feed his wife an "orange".
Way to go Steve. Keep up the good work.
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 02:14 AM
Why is it any of our business? Bill committed his crimes in Sherwood. Shouldn't he be entitled to keep this secret from the public he serves in Sandy?
Hey, he was off duty and on leave. It shouldn't count.
Way to go CJ ........ Absolutely, stupendous reasoning.
You should win a prize for this piece of work.!!!
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 02:26 AM
Believe in Healing. People make mistakes and have to deal with their own shame and guilt over the issue. I would like to meet someone as strong as Bill. He faced the challenge of healing, he worked to better his life. and he DID. He could have just as easily pulled the trigger on himself, but he didn't. That should count for something. Please believe in healing. It happens everyday. And when was the last time you faced the big elephant in the room as boldly as Bill has? Before you judge, judge yourself.
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 03:10 AM
Having dilligly waded through all these comments I would like to nominate the comment from "A True Sandy Citizen" as being the worst of them all. This inbread makes it clear that his mother and father were also brother and sister. Congrats Mr. Truley Sandy for your staunch position and support of this situation most responsible citizens view as reprehensible. And speaking of mice, I'll just bet you are one of those fine authoritarians that run your household with an iron fist. Another wife beater proud to have an obedient wife and children that wimper and cower like scared mice at your presence. Yea we know your type.
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 03:15 AM
RS, you make a very human point that all of us should consider. I apreciate your humanity and am not one of those that want to further punish or humiliate Bill. I think he has been through a lot and deserves credit for being man enough to face his demons. On the other hand, I also think that because of what Bill has been through and how he was effected that he should no longer serve the public as a law enforcement officer. There are just too many pitt-falls and dangers for someone as fragile as Bill seems to be and there is too much at stake in dealing with public safety issues.
Bill won't be the first person that has had to accept a career change. If he has truly healed, he should be resilient enough tomove ahead in the next chapter of his life. Another thing to consider is how hard losing this upcoming civil case is probably going to be on Bill. He probably is going to need a lot of support to deal with the back lash of public comment that comes out of a jury decision in favor of the Kaady family. I don't think we want Bill trying to be a cop while going through this.
One other thing I might add, is that as much as I believe in the virtue of forgivness, we can't let Skelton skate here. I'm afraid there is just too much damning evidence that points to him being a very poor administrator. This latest news about the wanted poster on display at Sandy PD that ask for the head of the woman that made the documentry,"28 seconds" is very disturbing. The poster reportedly also says,"up your ass Fouad". We have heard and seen many other indications that Harold Skelton is less than a good chief in the last couple of years but this clearly puts him over the top. It's sad enough that we have had this tradgety that has effected so many lives, but to see this kind of response and repulsive from our PD is absolutely unforgivable. The virtues of tolerance and forgivness don't extend to leaving a sick and inhumane man in such a position of authority. We will pray for Sandy that their chief of police finds some healing and forgivness as well.
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 04:38 AM
Go to the local daily news link and look on opinion.
Good summary of the situation
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 04:44 AM
I know I will suffer many venomous attacks from the know it alls on this blog once I say this.
I have read the text of all these posts and to tell you the truth quite a few have valid point here and there. Some are just outright retarded and ignorant and show that some people are beyond a rational thought process when their paranoid hate of all things government blind them. It thoroughly undermines any rationality that they may bring to their argument. Inaccurate information is rampant and assumptions are many.
Kaady was shot and killed and yes Bergin received a DUII about 18 months(?) later. Facts.
I have noted many nut bars on this site;
Lloyd, CJ, Mad Mom, Sandy Parent, Retired Logger, Ret. Sheriff(yea right) and an endless list of disaffected people with way to much time on their hands and very little logic.
This blog also interestingly shows what little knowledge exists regarding use of force training, the laws and case law affecting use of force both at the Federal and State level. It also indicates a lack of willingness in most of these bloggers to at least learn it. The luxury of 20/20 hind sight is actually cited in Federal case law as a situation that is to be avoided in judging police shootings. The shooting is purely judged on the events leading up to and during the incident. There is a reason that in citizen academies around the United States that citizens routinely use a much greater level of force, including deadly force, than the officers do in scenario based training.
I find it interesting that the anti-Bergin types cite that the Grand Jury, made up of citizens, could not come to a conclusion because of conflicting statements. They say that this somehow indicates guilt. Many juries are faced with this in Grand Jury or trials. Not just with cops. Conflicting statements do not necessarily mean that anyone is lying. It means that witnesses saw or interpreted different things during a dynamic situation. Witnesses are traditionally a very poor way to prove a case because of unreliability. Who do you choose to believe? There is also language in Federal rulings that gives benefit of the doubt to Police Officers acknowledging the fact that the decision process was made in seconds. By reading these posts it is clearly an issue clouded by emotion.
For those of you that wave the Spence banner, keep in mind that civil and criminal court are two different species. Civil court has a much much lower level of proof. Preponderance of the evidence vs. beyond a reasonable doubt. Kind of like 50.1% vs. 99.99%. Civil court really is a competition of who puts on the best dog and pony show, thus Spence's great record. Spence takes emotionally charged high profile cases for a reason, $$$$. Plain and simple, he is not after Saint Hood as a champion of the people.
So, all of you psychos can slam this post with no viable counter arguments or facts. It's not over until the fat lady sings and there is still a possibility of long faces on either side at the conclusion of the lawsuit.
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 05:34 AM
Right or Wrong;
No need to worry about venomous attacks for your viewpoint, because nothing you said was really new or signifigant in anyway. You just lumped everyone that is against shooting unarmed, badly injured, naked people into your simplton category of being anti-government and tryed to spin the facts as everyother anti-democratic cop apologist here has. Sorry Mr. Cop Lawyer, but it is way too obvious which side most of the irrationality has been on and the overwhelming call for accountibility comes from a majority of good solid citizens that aren't willing to buy the crap your cop institution has been trying to sell. You know the saying; You can't fool all the people all the time. I know people like you hate citizen driven politics and blogs like this because they go beyond your sanctimonius righteousness and challenge your claim of authority.
And just what is "The Spence Banner" Mr Authority? Not likely that you have ever read anything by Mr.Spence is it? Your Dog & Pony Show definition of a civil court proceeding really closes the case on how ignorant YOU ARE. You should team up with that other sociopathic parasite, Josh Marquis that still drinks from the public trough in Oregon. You two would be deadly together. Spence isn't motivated by money you Moron. He's motivated by serving justice to the people each time he knocks the legs out from under some mean spirited, self righteous, puffed up authoritarian like yourself. Your a loser Mr. Wrong and if you come back here after the Kaady trial, you can tell us all about how it was just a dog and pony show. Right now though,
I think it's time for you to go beat up your wife, or lay down by your dish
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 07:39 AM
"RS" Bergin can face a 100 elephants in his room and even he can sleep with them--WE THE PEOPLE simply don't care!!
What we do care for is that Bergin is no longer totting a
gun, dressed in a uniform and carrying a gun as an officer
of the law here in Sandy or Clackamus County. It really
is that simply and to make it into an "elephant thing" is to fly them as you seem to do with your line of reasoning!
Are you riding a pink one or purple one on your next trip?
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 07:47 AM
"He could have just as easily pulled the trigger on himself, but he didn't."
No. Instead, he pulled the trigger on a helpless, unarmed, bleeding accident victim. And then he lied about it. Some would say that's worse. In fact, I would say that's worse.
I guess I just don't understand good ole boy culture.
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 11:50 AM
"Why is it any of our business? Bill committed his crimes in Sherwood. Shouldn't he be entitled to keep this secret from the public he serves in Sandy?"
Why? Because "Bill" is an officer of the law. An officer, by the way, with a history of breaking the law and getting away with it. An officer who told other officers that he does this sort of thing all the time in Sandy, and gets away with it. An officer who said they should just let him walk, because he's a cop. Brotherhood and all that. Good old boys.
Why should we care? Because "Bill" is supposed to be upholding the law. We give him a gun and a badge and a paycheck and authority over people. In exchange for that, he is supposed to be just and fair and at the very least, not a drug-crazed psychopath. How are we to expect he is going to uphold the law if he can't even obey the law himself??? Police officer is one of those jobs that comes with a "good character" requirement. Simple as that. "Bill" does not have a good character. He is dishonest, he is violent, and he is a criminal. If one has a demonstrably bad character, as this man so obviously does, then he cannot be a police officer.
In most states, an officer who commits domestic violence can no longer be a police officer. He cannot carry a gun. I think the Sherwood officers did him a great favor by only charging him with DUII, given the circumstances of his arrest. He was, after all, breaking into his former girlfriend's home in the middle of the night, terrorizing her. I also think they did him a favor by only measuring the amount of alcohol in his system, rather than looking at what other drugs might have been swilling around in those unclean veins.
Either way, I definitely think the DPSST needs to be looking into this. I, for one, plan to alert them that there is at least one police officer in Sandy who is giving all other officers a bad name. This is simply unbelievable.
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 12:00 PM
"This blog also interestingly shows what little knowledge exists regarding use of force training, the laws and case law affecting use of force both at the Federal and State level. It also indicates a lack of willingness in most of these bloggers to at least learn it. The luxury of 20/20 hind sight is actually cited in Federal case law as a situation that is to be avoided in judging police shootings. The shooting is purely judged on the events leading up to and during the incident. There is a reason that in citizen academies around the United States that citizens routinely use a much greater level of force, including deadly force, than the officers do in scenario based training."
The above quote comes from yet another cop posing as an legal authority on shooting unarmed citizens posing no threat to anyone. Thanks for your scholarly disertation
Mr. White and Wrong. We will save this post and read it back to you after a federal jury awards the Kaady family a large settlement. Thank God for all the citizens that have enough education & horse sense to know that the shooting of an unarmed naked man is "Always Wrong" no matter how many crooked cops, spindoctors from CCPOA, sheister municiple attornies, or lame sheriff's & chiefs we have trying to use "case Law" to spin the facts. Thank God the jury that will be seated will come from a pool of these honest citizens and not from this crooked cop collective, or from Craig Robert's OXYCODIN CREW.
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 12:11 PM
Imagine that. Some lowlife, dirtbag, cop trying to tell us about case law and what motivates one of this centuries greatest legal minds. Gerry Spence has been one of this nations greatest guardians of true justice and often the only figure to stand between us Citizens and the tyranny of a corrupt government. Meet us at the court house after the Kaady trial Mr. Right or Wrong so we can see what a loser looks like.
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 12:27 PM
Is that you Mowery? I went to law school with you. If I remember right, you were a loser then too.
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 12:30 PM
Below are a few of our Clackamas County heroes protecting us from the bad guys.
STEVE HYSON: CCSO DETECTIVE
ARRESTED; ASSAULT , DOMESTIC ABUSE 2008
DON MAINERO: CCSO DEPUTY
ARRESTED, CONVICTED; SEX ABUSE, CONTRIBUTING TO DELINQUENCY OF MINOR/2007
BRYAN LAVIGNE: CCSO DEPUTY
ARRESTED, CONVICTED; ASSAULT ATTEMPTED STRANGULATION ON MINOR/2007
PERRY MARSHALL; CCSO PAROLE OFFICER
ARRESTED; ASSAULT, SPOUSAL ABUSE, KID NAPPING/2007
RAYMOND LOVELACE: CCSO DEPUTY
ARRESTED, CONVICTED; FORGERY, TAMPERING WITH DRUG RECORDS/2007
DAVID VERBOS: CCSO DEPUTY
ARRESTED, CONVICTED: ARMED ROBBERY 13 YEARS PRISON/ 2006
BILL BERGIN: SANDY PD
ARRESTED; DUII
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 12:43 PM
oh my God! what is this talk of "enemies of the people" & "People's Court"?? I hear something! TICK TOCK TICK TOCK!
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 12:55 PM
Looks like we might need to file an FOI request to find out if Bergin was packin a concealed weapon the night of his crime spree.
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 12:58 PM
can we call us a People's Court?
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 02:08 PM
Marcus: This is one of the most inappropriate articles I have ever read. Why would the Sandy Post personally attack Bill in such a manner its almost reads like you are on Burrow's payroll. If you want to write this kind of Bovine Skatology maybe you should quit and go to work at Indy Media.
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 04:23 PM
Is Police Chief Harold Skelton the "Adolf Eichmann" of Sandy, Oregon?
Before you think that such a preposterous question, allow your minds
to consider these FACTS:
...In order for the Nazi War Machine to commit the Holocaust they
had to plan for it many years in advance and methodically set the
stage for when the time would come that they would implement their
plans.
...Adolf Eichman was charged with the task of organizing, planning and
implementation of the necessary incremental steps needed to bring
the horrible deed to fruition and to do so, he relied on some of the
most diabolical mass psychologists, aberrant psychiatrists, occult
sociologists, and authoritarian behaviorists to aid him in selecting
the cadre of executioners, preparing them for their future roles,
organizing the bureaucracy needed and to condition the population
gradually to escalating and shocking behavior done by government
officials so as benumb them to a state of denial to the true realities,
so as to diminish active resistance for when the time came to then
undertake the mass murder that had long been planned.
...Hitler's "willing executioners" were really a very very small cadre of
personnel who did the actual killing. While it was true that there
were many citizens, soldiers and government officials involved with
the "process", the actual killing was done by a small select group
of people who had been nurtured and conditioned for their tasks
previously over a long period of time. The Nazi War Machine did
not use soldiers who came from conscription, nor did they use
anyone except those who were duly ranked within their SS Korps
and then only those who were psychologically determined to be
capable of doing "mass murder" without a mental, emotional, or
spiritual compunction. Those selected were most definitely
PSYCHOPATHS who were selected via a process that began as
early as 8+ years prior to commencement of the actual Holocaust.
...Those selected came from the ranks of the Police, as they were
already in government service, paramilitary, decidedly authoritarian
personalities, with totalitarian political indoctrinations (extreme
militaristically rightwing) and capable of sustained functioning in a
hierarchal system without too much personal questioning of those
above them in ranking, while maintaining personal "career goals" by
submitting to such oversight that allowed them to become totally
dependent upon the "authority figure" to attain career progression.
...Usually they were low-ranking members of occult secret societies
(primarily the Masonic Order) and similar closed societies like the
unofficially-sanctioned groups such as the current Brotherhood of
the Strong, and had slightly lower than average IQ's, but yet could
still be considered highly functional in society due to their "position"
(without which they'd be very dysfunctional in many aspects of life).
Their primary source of personal identities came from being "member"
of such hierarchical groups that predisposed them to willingly do any-
thing to aid a fellow member of the group and to make any sacrifice
--no matter how implausible--for the enhanced cohesion of the group,
even if it meant to set aside logic, rationality, sense of fairness and
sense of justice.
...Many of those "selected" had obvious and even subtle personality
disorders, wide range of mental disorders, dysfunctional moods and
well-concealed "issues" (such as heavy alcohol abuse or illegal drug
usage) that were deliberately overlooked by their own supervisory
authorities so as to channel them into the future tasks they'd been
prior selected for (many had no clue what future undertakings would
be done via their hands, for in the planning stages, they too were
like the public-at-large--clueless as to what was ahead). When it did
come to rules, there was a double-standard whereby those who were
prior selected were simply allowed to violate the administrative rules,
regulations, and even the established laws of the land with undue
toleration and profuse justifications that others not in the selected
group (those deemed unsuitable to become "mass murderers) were
punished or sanctioned for.
...One of the most important criterion used to select future the "mass
killers" was to seek those known to have a pattern of domestic discord
with noted disturbances arising from unstable relationships whereby a
variety of abuses were taking place.
...These people were then encouraged to be brutal with their dispassionate
enforcement of the law, encouraged to limit their socialization with the
public and do so primarily with likeminded peers and to develop a sense
of "esprit de corps" (albeit a very false and diabolical one). Body-building
was encouraged to capture the pent-up homoerotic tension so could be
re-channeled into unresolved aggression via both individual and group
training where various forms of drugs were used to bring about their
enhancement of performance. They were admonished to reach a peak
physical conditioning and to maintain such with an elaborate regiment
of exercise, conditioning, eating habits, and the like. They then were
constantly told they were a "select group of men" that comprised the
"elite" of the already elite and this concept was deliberately reinforced
via supervisory management in as many ways as possible...especially
when it came to interfacing with people in the public who may have
had unsatisfactory encounters with them...they were always--to save
bureaucratic face--considered "in the right" no matter what deed was
at issue or questioned.
...When these selected individuals happened to kill someone--either as in
accidentally or deliberately--in the course of the performance of their
duties, then they'd be accorded all the "psychological support" that the
organization could muster, told in no uncertain terms that they were
not at fault (fault belonged to the victim) and the most elaborate of
means had to absolve them of real guilt or accountability or personal
responsibility as they were simply not to be allowed to leave their
"career path" as had been pre-selected for them.
...While it is considered "normal" for any reasonable human-being to
suffer "guilt" and grieve for killing a fellow human-being, the method
to their madness was had in not allowing the individual to success-
fully face their own responsibility and to keep them in the state of
mental trance that results from a continued denial, with the more
denial allowed, then deeper is pushed back the "normal" process that
can allow one to attain a mental resolution. Once the threshold of
killing a human-being was had, then as they were encouraged to be
more brutal, more "professional", more committed to their "chosen
work" with a more determined zeal that was reinforced by their
supervisory/management and the fellow members of the "group",
then a psychotic delusion of invincibility began to set them apart
from their fellow man, as they'd sink deeper and deeper into their
future "career path" of murdering madness as a future fully-func-
tioning "mass murderer"!
...In essence, then, they were carefully prior selected, elaborately
and unreasonably nurtured as the flow of normal events would
present dire circumstances which would then allow for a more
in-depth "conditioning". All had killed before in the course of
their "official duties" and been absolved of due accountability
and as each incident carried them one step downward, then
descended to the bowels of hell itself to become Hitler's most
Willing Executioners.
...The "process" was well documented, analyzed, researched and
even refined owing to the political climate that would encourage
such since. There is nothing mysterious about any of this as
it's all very basic knowledge derived from countless incidents
of man's inhumanities to his fellow beings as it's been honed to
such an "art of refinement" these past number of decades that
for the most part, the public is oblivious to the utter banality
and the simplicity that is involved for they tend to judge their
"authority figures" to be as "good" and as noble in spirit as are
they themselves. Such is not the case, for these simple steps as
are detailed above have proliferated Adolf Eichmann--like Mickey
Mouse's famed Sorcerer's Apprentice--into countless unnamed,
unknown (to the public-at-large at least) into countless beings
who are posed to repeat his act, albeit with a different script
and on a different stage, but nonetheless, the same sordid
genocidal play that gained him infamous immortality as the
embodiment of bureaucratic Satanic evil.
Can any of us really lay aside our inner fears as to whether Sandy's
Chief of Police Harold Skelton is not one of Mickey Mouse's famed
Sorcerers Apprentice's brooms in the way he has swept aside the
magnitude and enormity of Bergin's accumulated deeds that clearly
inform any reasonable person that he is unfit for police work? If not,
then can we then wonder if Skelton will be viewed by history as Sandy's
very own "Adolf Eichmann" when the fascistic future that is so fastly
enfolding upon us reaches it's nadir and until when freedom-loving
people have marshaled the resources and will to reclaim their
rights and freedoms?
YOU must make your own decision. I've made mine...
(email verified)
Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 05:55 PM
Mike Helton;
Welcome late comer. Please take the time to read the 154 post above yours. Many responsible, law abiding, tax paying citizens have already addressed your question and answered it quite thoroughly.
Marcus is doing his job, reporting the facts and nothing but the facts. He did not make up any of this.
Bill Bergin is a public figure that represents the law and draws a salary from tax payers. Bill broke the law
and displayed conduct very inappropriate for an officer of the law. If you are suggesting that the public has no right to know this or that it should have been swept under the carpet, you either have a very warped sense of ethics or are drinking from the same fountain as Sandy PD.
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 03:53 AM
Mr. Woods
Bills behavior was inappropiate. Law Enforcement did their job. Bill has so far completed the terms of his punishment, and this article could have been written a year ago when Marcus was well aware that Bill was having problems with the Kaddy incident. Sounds like you are drinking from the same fountain as the Guy comparing the Chief of Police with Nazi Germany Indy Media. and the rest of the Portland Kooks.
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 05:26 AM
Thank you Sad Historian for taking the time to articulate the sociological history of evil authoritarianism. I think there are many of us out here that have maybe a less complete understanding of the history you detail so well, but none the less, at least
an intuitive and general sense of how our institutions have become the beast. This hasn't happened overnight.
Those of us a little older can remember when most policemen could be considered a friend and the person that would protect you from the bulley or someone trying to steal from you. That was back when most laws made sense and were designed to protect "we the people".
It was before laws and law-makers simply became the instument of corporations and institutions and cops the enforcers of these private interest and the state.
That seems like a long time ago and maybe these memories are based more on a naive understanding than on reality. As hard as the corporate media and spin doctors representing our institutions try to force feed us propaganda and desensitize us to violence, I do find it somewhat encouraging when I read these blogs and realize that even the slickest and sickest of these social architects hasn't been able to convince the public that shooting unarmed, badly injured naked people is right. To be sure, we still do have the idiots that believe Harold Skelton or Craig Roberts when they lie to the public, and tell us no policies were violated, everything is under control. Most of the resitance to truth and transpatency seems to be coming from your carefully selected, conditioned, nurtured collective of psycho killers we cal cops.
It is their job and duty to stand behind their authoritarian masters and repeat the same lies and empty mottos over and over.
The reason some of us fight so hard against this obvious corruption is that we know we must try to hold the line. All of this militarization of our police over the past two decades hasn't been about protecting us from drugs, or gangs. And all the new repressive laws haven't been about protecting our children from preditors or us from terrorist. It's all been a steady march towads martial law and the total police state. We get closer each day and each time the Bush administration trashes one more of your constutitional rights. Sad Historian is oh so right. We are dealing with the enemy and the enemy are the authoritarian fascist that move us closer to tyranny each day. Many say that it is already too late and that the scales have already tipped too far in the direction of totallitarianism, but we must continue to fight and keep our vigillence. If we lose this fight here and now and end up under martial law, we wont be left with too many options and sadly one of the only effective ones may be, "long range precision marksmanship".
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 05:56 AM
Please see Dr. Helton/whatevers comment and then re-read Sad historians remarks. It's all so obvious.
Helton/skelton whatever, is just one more conditioned soldier on the front lines of facsism.
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 06:05 AM
spin stopper, or is it fecal spreader?
I tried to be nice about this but you have truly shown the ingnorant and truly brain dead side of the debate.
God forbid we introduce law into the conversation. Wow, would not want to cloud the issue. Huh? Do you actually tie your own shoes in the morning or does a group home employee handle that. Who said I was a cop? For all you know I might actually be a lawyer or a construction worker.
You stepped right into it and failed to refute anything I said because you can't. You obviously believe that circumventing law is ok when it is convenient for you and will believe anything someone tells you if it is what you want to hear.
As far as your membership in the Cult of Spence? If you truly believe that Mr. Spence is a champion for the people let's ask how many times his work has been pro-bono or billed at a standard attorney hourly rate. Never! He takes his share trust me. Several years ago there was the Nathan Thomas shooting in Portland. You know how that settled? Something like $1 and changes to training and department policy and procedure. Now if Mr. Spence wants to be noble and encourage change then that is what he would truly sue for. Instead this is about government having deep pockets and how much money can we obtain for a death in our family. It's tax payer dollars moron. It's paid and forgotten. Once again it is not over. It is an up in the air case.
You have totally discounted the events that began at 658am the morning of the shooting. All of that is admissable dip$%^& in a civil trial. If you read the observations of 9-1-1 callers throughout the day, a reasonable person would assume that maybe PCP was at use, a bad batch of meth maybe or at least a real mental disturbance. All of these factors add up and will be heard in the upcoming trial. What may not be heard is Bergin's DUII. That will be hotly debated as to the relevance, it occurred like 18 months after the fact.
Yea, I took the liberty of watching 28 seconds on Youtube. Are you guys nucking futs? Huh? talk about an editing job. This "documentary" was ok if you are a dope smoker or LSD user. Wow, I don't think Spence will be using that in court. Not a very factual or impartial look at the facts. For one it starts with the car crash. The family and Spence would like you to believe that.
Oh and by the way, no the head trauma was not severe enough to cause his behavior. And shock? It usually does not allow you fight through a taser or make you growl at people and climb up on two cars. Oh and how does the pre-crash behavior of running into one car and then a pick-up truck, more than once actually. State Arson Investgators showed that the fire was started outside of the car in the brush? The events leading up to the shooting started about six hours before the crash. Sorry, but those are admissable and may be tough for even Mr. Spence to explain away.
Anytime you want to debate Mr. Spin Stopper you just say the word. I will insist that you come to the table with facts and applicable case law to back up relevance and use of force. Until then clean that slurpee machine and stock those corn nuts. You have customers waiting.
Just an added thought. No I don't expect the Officers that I pay to wrestle with people covered head to toe in blood. Especially those that have demonstrated the behavior that Kaady did leading up to the incident. I certainly wouldn't do it. Shame on anyone else that expects them to. If you feel that it's appropriate then maybe you should go out and become an officer.
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 06:07 AM
Dr Skelton Whatever Liar;
"Bill completed the terms of his punishment".
I'm afraid empty words coming from a department and chief with a history of deception and lying is not going to convince anyone but those programmed functionaries under the spell.. We need some evidence on this one!!!!
Law enforcement "didn't do their job".
How could Marcus have written this a year ago when it was only recently uncovered by an astute investigator with no connection to Sandy or the paper? You need to quit lying. The timelyness of this story is not the issue anyway. The story is your failed attemt at deception.
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 06:20 AM
oh ye who are perplexed and bewildered with the most
vexing questions concerning this whole affair, grab your
copy of the Holy Bible and search it for answers and ye
shall behold the Words of the Lord:
Psalms 64
Ps. 64:1 Hear me, O God, as I voice my complaint; protect my life from the threat of the enemy.
Ps. 64:2 Hide me from the conspiracy of the wicked, from
that noisy crowd of evildoers.
Ps. 64:3 They sharpen their tongues like swords and aim
their words like deadly arrows.
Ps. 64:4 They shoot from ambush at the innocent man;
they shoot at him suddenly, without fear.
Ps. 64:5 They encourage each other in evil plans, they
talk about hiding their snares; they say, “Who will see
them?” [Or us]
Ps. 64:6 They plot injustice and say, “We have devised
a perfect plan!” Surely the mind and heart of man are
cunning.
Ps. 64:7 But God will shoot them with arrows; suddenly
they will be struck down.
Ps. 64:8 He will turn their own tongues against them and
bring them to ruin; all who see them will shake their heads in scorn.
Ps. 64:9 All mankind will fear; they will proclaim the works of God and ponder what he has done.
Ps. 64:10 Let the righteous rejoice in the LORD and take
refuge in him; let all the upright in heart praise him!
May ye have peace and light be shined upon this affair!
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 06:24 AM
White & Wrong/Don't know
You need to just shorten your name to Don't Have a Clue.
You'r not even a good spin doctor. Better stick with wife beating.
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 06:29 AM
RIGHT or WRONG/ HE DON"T KNOW
"Spence isn't motivated by money you Moron. He's motivated by serving justice to the people each time he knocks the legs out from under some mean spirited, self righteous, puffed up authoritarian like yourself. Your a loser Mr. Wrong and if you come back here after the Kaady trial, you can tell us all about how it was just a dog and pony show. Right now though,
I think it's time for you to go beat up your wife, or lay down by your dish"
I said it before and I'll say it again Mr. Wrong;
You are a moronic Idiot and a Liar.
It is common knowlege and public knowlege that Gerry Spence has taken many pro=bono cases. Also he had absolutely nothing to do with the Nathan Thomas case you brain dead, disabled, inbred, moron.
Thanks for verifying what a fool you are. Better go check tatoos or write some more parking tickets. Don't forget your OxyCodin and bullets.
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 07:06 AM
"This blog also interestingly shows what little knowledge exists regarding use of force training, the laws and case law affecting use of force both at the Federal and State level. It also indicates a lack of willingness in most of these bloggers to at least learn it. The luxury of 20/20 hind sight is actually cited in Federal case law as a situation that is to be avoided in judging police shootings. The shooting is purely judged on the events leading up to and during the incident. There is a reason that in citizen academies around the United States that citizens routinely use a much greater level of force, including deadly force, than the officers do in scenario based training."
The above quote comes from yet another cop posing as an legal authority on shooting unarmed citizens posing no threat to anyone. Thanks for your scholarly disertation
Mr. White and Wrong. We will save this post and read it back to you after a federal jury awards the Kaady family a large settlement. Thank God for all the citizens that have enough education & horse sense to know that the shooting of an unarmed naked man is "Always Wrong" no matter how many crooked cops, spindoctors from CCPOA, sheister municiple attornies, or lame sheriff's & chiefs we have trying to use "case Law" to spin the facts. Thank God the jury that will be seated will come from a pool of these honest citizens and not from this crooked cop collective, or from Craig Robert's OXYCODIN CREW.
Now you may go stock your corn nuts and clean the slurpee machine Mr. Steve
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 07:36 AM
More OxyCodin, More Bullets, More Corn Nuts !!!
Bang Bang..... Bang bang bang...........
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 08:57 AM
ccpoa/spin stoppers? How about irrational psycho?
I think Right or Wrong proved his point. Not only that you can't even read apparently. I don't think he said anything about Spence being involved in the Nathan Thomas case. I think that was the point putz. I don't think that Spence has done much if any pro bono work. That would mean he also does not take a cut at the end. You can bet your a$$ he does.
It is readily apparent that you are a very troubled person who has decided that facts don't matter. Better hit your psych meds again.
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 08:57 AM
I stand behind my facts loser; check the record
Sorry;no more free dances with mental midgets doing the idiot's two-step
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 09:14 AM
"This is my post from the opinion page and I am sticking with it. Too much craziness on this blog though";
Naked, unarmed and unresponsive are the only things that stick out to me.
As a former officer that retired in Nov 94' I believe that officer Bergin should have been indicted and since not, the CCDA's office should have brought charges. If not they could have reffered it to the US Attorney or FBI for civil rights violations. I will admit we do get a little extra rope to hang ourselves, do to the stress of the job and the responsibility we are given. But this case has me puzzled me from the begginging. With multiple officers on scene(2+) a naked man should have been tackled, cuffed and taken to Emanuel hosp where he could have seeked mental health help.
I do not see where the officers life was in danger. I am 6'4" and was around 240lbs and likely would have had no problem, with help pinning Mr. Kaady. That is why several of my former colleagues hated to have women back them up and very small men as well. They do not have the strength and mass like larger officers do. But remember because they do not, they also have different use of force escalators. What a smaller officer does on his escalation scale I could not get away with. This is not at all to bash women etc, but geting dirty is part of the job sometime and a lot of officers are scared to do this today. They rely too much on electronics.
This is my opinion and is the opinion of several officers that I know and still talk to. In fact one is a former instructor at DPSST and i'm sure would glady back my statements. Right Mr. Howard W? Just remember that not all officers agree with all other officers actions.
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 11:02 AM
This police officer pulled me over about a year ago and was a complete jerk the worst cop I have ever dealt with. He should be fired for driving whilr drunk, what kind of example are you setting if you let this go un punished?
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 12:57 PM
I see all of these posts on here ripping apart anyone who has a comment that remotely supports law enforcement. We need police officers. You can't really argue that, (although many of you will). Also, Fouaad Kaady bears some responsibility in this. I know all of you "free thinkers" are obviously smart enough to admit that.
I Can't wait for the first insult to be thrown at me since that is obviously the way most of you do business on this topic. However, maybe someone will surprise me with a dignified response and possibly engage in a healthy debate on this issue.
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 02:32 PM
how and why does "Fouaad Kaady bears some responsibility in this" as you claim ""? That comment makes no sense, as
it left hanging out there in mid-air buttressed by "what"
and supported by "what"?
Let us get specific now and not just throw comments out willy-nilly and walk off thinking it has gotten you off the hook you failed to properly bait.
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 03:27 PM
I think it's funny that the few people defending good ol "Bill" here keep claiming that everyone who sees that "Bill" is clearly unfit for duty must all just be cop haters. Whatever.
Yeah, anyone who thinks that a man who drives drunk, terrorizes women, lies to police officers, takes a lot of mind-altering drugs with a lot of alcohol, and claims that he should have immunity from prosecution for his crimes because he's a cop, anyone who thinks that someone like that should not be a cop must just not understand cops. Right?
Anyone who thinks that police officers should not be allowed to shoot unarmed accident victims to death for being bloody, well they must just hate cops.
Because everyone knows that cops can do whatever they want, right?
Is that really what these Sandy Good Ol Boys are saying???
Yeah, how DARE anyone question the right of good ol "Bill" to do whatever he wants and get away with it. Who are we, the people who pay his salary, to require that he actually FOLLOW the laws he is supposed to be upholding.
(email verified)
Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 03:53 PM
Thanks Jackson for getting closer to the heart of this.
Why does wanting Bill to be held accountible for his conduct and demanding that he be removed from his position as a cop make someone a cop hater? Bill is unfit. There is no question here. We all know what has been made so clear.
We seem to have just a couple of very sick people with no ethics or sense of civic responsibility out there that want to grant Bill total immunity. These people don't represent law enforcement or anything else except depraved sickness.
Anyone trying to make this look like it's about cop hating is being very "manipulative and dishonest". Those qualities are what many of us see in Bill, and so I guess it is possible that it may be Bill Bergin himself writing many of these post. Bill may have a lot in commom with Cory Pritchard, our local con artist whose recent attempt at defending himself in court got him a nice long prison term. Even with over fifty victim testimonies and a track record streatching back many years, Cory lyed and maintained his innocence right up untill the end. There was even testimony that he was running his con games on other inmates while awaiting trial.
That's what it has been like reading some of these post that purport to be from legal experts talking case law about use of force, pretending they know something about Gerry Spence, talking about 911 calls, wrestling with bloody people, Kaady being on drugs, and all the other crap. It's Been like having a conversation with a totally psychotic and deranged nut case with no concept of reality or right and wrong; Maybe someone like Charles Manson, Ted Bundy, Wesley Allen Dodd, but not some self respecting and noble person representing public safepty and the law.
The people that stand against the Kaady shooting aren't people that hate cops or wish to deny them the right to self defence so that they may go home to their families at the end of their shift. All of these officer involved shootings are tragic. Unfortunately, many of them are justified by the cicumstance and when these occur you will not see this kind of public outcry. The public is not as stupid as some of our county spin doctors think they are. Anyway you cut it, the Kaady shooting was "totally Unjustified" by the circumstances. There is no way you can spin the facts to justify this shooting that was more like an execution. It would have done so much more for law enforcement and all the victims involved if the powers that be simply came forward and said to the public: "There has been a trajedy, and a citizen was unnessasarily shot by two poorly trained officers today acting out of fear and in haste". So we would have had a wrongful death suit. So what. We had a wrongful death suit when a Clackamas County SWAT trainer shot deputy Bill Bowman in the head with a live round he supposedly didn't know he had in his weapon. We had another big settlement when dispatchers didn't warn Deputy Coats they were sending him into a previously verified dangerous situation and he was shot. We lost a couple more million when a jury awarded Carl Bell a settlement for discrimination within CCSO. This is no different. There was a very serious mistake made that cost a desenthuman being his life and the right thing to do would have been owning up to it.
Instead we have this hugely well orchestrated coverup coming from the very top and telling all kinds of blatant lies and using the media to spin the truth with all different forms of confusing and devisive tactics.
It has been one of the most pitiful and shameful episodes in Clackamas County & Sandy's History.
This lying and the coverup don't represent the better side of law enforcement anymore than those writing these post trying to justify and excuse the actions of Bill Bergin represent the more decent side of humanity.
I really don't think there are too many in law enforcement that wish to stand behind Bill or this shooting. Both the shooting and Bill's conduct during and after his arrest are an absolute disgrace to anyone in law enforcement or anyone wishing to support law enforcement.
(email verified)
Sun, Feb 17, 2008 at 02:00 AM
Thanks Jackson for getting closer to the heart of this.
Why does wanting Bill to be held accountible for his conduct and demanding that he be removed from his position as a cop make someone a cop hater? Bill is unfit. There is no question here. We all know what has been made so clear.
We seem to have just a couple of very sick people with no ethics or sense of civic responsibility out there that want to grant Bill total immunity. These people don't represent law enforcement or anything else except depraved sickness.
Anyone trying to make this look like it's about cop hating is being very "manipulative and dishonest". Those qualities are what many of us see in Bill, and so I guess it is possible that it may be Bill Bergin himself writing many of these post. Bill may have a lot in commom with Cory Pritchard, our local con artist whose recent attempt at defending himself in court got him a nice long prison term. Even with over fifty victim testimonies and a track record streatching back many years, Cory lyed and maintained his innocence right up untill the end. There was even testimony that he was running his con games on other inmates while awaiting trial.
That's what it has been like reading some of these post that purport to be from legal experts talking case law about use of force, pretending they know something about Gerry Spence, talking about 911 calls, wrestling with bloody people, Kaady being on drugs, and all the other crap. It's Been like having a conversation with a totally psychotic and deranged nut case with no concept of reality or right and wrong; Maybe someone like Charles Manson, Ted Bundy, Wesley Allen Dodd, but not some self respecting and noble person representing public safepty and the law.
The people that stand against the Kaady shooting aren't people that hate cops or wish to deny them the right to self defence so that they may go home to their families at the end of their shift. All of these officer involved shootings are tragic. Unfortunately, many of them are justified by the cicumstance and when these occur you will not see this kind of public outcry. The public is not as stupid as some of our county spin doctors think they are. Anyway you cut it, the Kaady shooting was "totally Unjustified" by the circumstances. There is no way you can spin the facts to justify this shooting that was more like an execution. It would have done so much more for law enforcement and all the victims involved if the powers that be simply came forward and said to the public: "There has been a trajedy, and a citizen was unnessasarily shot by two poorly trained officers today acting out of fear and in haste". So we would have had a wrongful death suit. So what. We had a wrongful death suit when a Clackamas County SWAT trainer shot deputy Bill Bowman in the head with a live round he supposedly didn't know he had in his weapon. We had another big settlement when dispatchers didn't warn Deputy Coats they were sending him into a previously verified dangerous situation and he was shot. We lost a couple more million when a jury awarded Carl Bell a settlement for discrimination within CCSO. This is no different. There was a very serious mistake made that cost a desenthuman being his life and the right thing to do would have been owning up to it.
Instead we have this hugely well orchestrated coverup coming from the very top and telling all kinds of blatant lies and using the media to spin the truth with all different forms of confusing and devisive tactics.
It has been one of the most pitiful and shameful episodes in Clackamas County & Sandy's History.
This lying and the coverup don't represent the better side of law enforcement anymore than those writing these post trying to justify and excuse the actions of Bill Bergin represent the more decent side of humanity.
I really don't think there are too many in law enforcement that wish to stand behind Bill or this shooting. Both the shooting and Bill's conduct during and after his arrest are an absolute disgrace to anyone in law enforcement or anyone wishing to support law enforcement.
(email verified)
Sun, Feb 17, 2008 at 02:01 AM
when all else fails, we still got the People's Court!
let's use it...
but, we can't you say?...
not so, as a new zeitgeist is blowing in the wind...
(email verified)
Sun, Feb 17, 2008 at 03:01 AM
There is a sic f---- that post on the Clackamas Review site as "successful short guy drving his H2 all the way to the bank laughing" posting on this sight as "Right or Wrong/Don't know". We have identified him as the little prick wearing a cowboy hat that drives a beat up Rambler around the local grade school trying to strike up conversations with young boys after school. He is about four foot six and uses a soap box to step in and out of his car. He also hangs out at the gym and likes to watch cops work out. He is a security guard at WalMart that was hired to help fill their handi-cap quota. He used to come into our station and want to touch our guns and stuff like that. He was kind of hard to understand because he was a hair-lip, but he used to tell us some pretty big lies to try to impress us. We finally had to bar him from coming in because he didn't bathe much and was always wearing one of those wife beater t-shirts with the mustard and catsup stains on it. He was really gross.
(email verified)
Sun, Feb 17, 2008 at 04:16 AM
Thats pretty funny. Now that we have put the post together with this description, we know exactly who you are talking about. This guy played harmonica and jews harp in our all-cop/security guard band a few years ago.
We had to let him go for some of the reasons you mention.
My wife is actually still good friends with this guys ex-wife. My wife met his ex at the battered women's shelter.
(email verified)
Sun, Feb 17, 2008 at 05:18 AM
Does that mean you used to beat your wife too?
(email verified)
Sun, Feb 17, 2008 at 05:23 AM
God this site is hilarious.
babaflak, must have had your white trash ways offended. You are so flaming stupid I bet you collect welfare and don't even work for a living. "Short guy" must have struck a chord with you. Guilty of something or just jealous of him? There, that will be my extent of name calling, couldn't resist calling a spade a spade. And no I am not "short guy", a cop, a security guard, a chef, a Sandy officer, a CCSO deputy, a relative of Bergin's or? Dis I forget to cover anything?
To move on, I think what I have found on this site and a couple of other posters have mentioned it, is the champions of Kaady never try to discount or refute anything that other posters ask about the Kaady shooting. Noone has to be an expert to read some of the current things out there in the use of force arena and realize there is more to this that can't be just discounted. And then to say that they "purport" themselves as experts? You are discounting issues that are considered in any court regarding officer involved shootings. "fact checker"? What facts are you checking? You are discounting facts. People continue to cite "28 seconds", for what? It is highly edited and starts at the car crash. If anyone has read the timeline there were calls about Kaady and his behavior before the car crash. Like two hit and runs.
All I want for some of you to do is to rationally and legally discount as to why none of the other issues matter. I would like you to do it without calling names, saying the questions "don't matter", claiming it's psycho cop supporters, or referring to Bergin's DUII that occurred more than a year after. I also notice that just about nobody mentions Willard(?). He fired to and so far he hasn't had a DUII or been put on meds. What does that say? For gods sake why does the behavior leading up to the shooting not matter to you? It is part of the incident in any court proceeding. If none of this matters and you truly wish to treat it as an emotional issue then say so. Just say I don't care about the court rulings, Federal or State Law, or any other things that govern use of force. I would respect that.
What I see is an engineering and editing of Kaady's behavior that was witnessed by callers who called 9-1-1 on recorded lines? There were interviews done of people who described his behavior as disconcerting as well, prior to the crash. Were they part of the conspiracy to? Unfortunately you cannot pick out of the investigation what you want to hear or not hear.
Saying, "naked, unarmed and injured" is not enough. I am sure that Gerry Spence is going to go into court with more than that. Maybe if some of the posters on here would answer these question with a rational response instead of flying off on a raging tangent of conspiracy and yes, cop bashing, maybe they would not be called cop haters. I don't know just an idea.
(email verified)
Sun, Feb 17, 2008 at 05:44 AM
Hey Short Guy;
Your not doing a very good job here. Posters on this site have provided a thousand answers to your questions.
You are the one that has dodged every rational question for why Fouad Kaady was shot. You tell us: what are the other issues. You are such a pathetic moron and prove it further each time you attempt to spin the facts with terms like, anti-government, cop haters, cop bashers,champions of Kaady, the Spence banner, cult of Spence, dope smokers,nut bars, 20/20 hindsight.
You just keep getting yourself in deeper and deeper Bill.
Why don't you just get help
The events that matter are the events that happened from the time you came into contact with Fouad and when ou shot him shorty unless you are talking about the oxycodin you and Williard had for breakfast. You guys knew nothing about prior 911 calls except about a hit and run. Like all the media spin doctors you immediately tried to start framing Kaady as a madman on drugs with the strenth of godzilla.
Just tell us why cant two trained cops walk up to a an unarmed, naked, catatonic man siting down and put his arms behind his back and cuff him. Better yet, why didn't you just stay home and let a real man like a firemen do this job? They wouldn't have even needed any cuffs. You are the one still trying to spin this You are a little freek and there are hundreds of people that have answered all of the rational questions that will be answered in court. You really are a little psycho-billy.
Now get out your apple box and climb back into your Rambler you little sawed off wife beatin, child molestin, inbred, little sac of poop coward. You ought to be ashamed of yourself even making an appearance here with these little irrational propped up questions that go nowhere. Who you trying to mimick here, Bruce Mowery? Go lay down wife beater.
Bang bang....... Bang bang bang
Bang Bang........ Bang Bang Bang.....
More Oxycodin, more Steroids, more Bullets, more corn nuts, more testostoron
(email verified)
Sun, Feb 17, 2008 at 06:50 AM
STEVE HYSON: CCSO DETECTIVE
ARRESTED; ASSAULT , DOMESTIC ABUSE 2008
DON MAINERO: CCSO DEPUTY
ARRESTED, CONVICTED; SEX ABUSE, CONTRIBUTING TO DELINQUENCY OF MINOR/2007
BRYAN LAVIGNE: CCSO DEPUTY
ARRESTED, CONVICTED; ASSAULT ATTEMPTED STRANGULATION ON MINOR/2007
PERRY MARSHALL; CCSO PAROLE OFFICER
ARRESTED; ASSAULT, SPOUSAL ABUSE, KID NAPPING/2007
RAYMOND LOVELACE: CCSO DEPUTY
ARRESTED, CONVICTED; FORGERY, TAMPERING WITH DRUG RECORDS/2007
DAVID VERBOS: CCSO DEPUTY
ARRESTED, CONVICTED: ARMED ROBBERY 13 YEARS PRISON/ 2006
BILL BERGIN: SANDY PD
ARRESTED; DUII
Bang Bang.........Bang bang bang
More oxyCodin More OxyCodin More OxyCodin
Bang Bang..........Bang Bang Bang
This ones for you Shorty/Don't know
(email verified)
Sun, Feb 17, 2008 at 07:00 AM
"This blog also interestingly shows what little knowledge exists regarding use of force training, the laws and case law affecting use of force both at the Federal and State level. It also indicates a lack of willingness in most of these bloggers to at least learn it. The luxury of 20/20 hind sight is actually cited in Federal case law as a situation that is to be avoided in judging police shootings. The shooting is purely judged on the events leading up to and during the incident. There is a reason that in citizen academies around the United States that citizens routinely use a much greater level of force, including deadly force, than the officers do in scenario based training."
The above quote comes from yet another cop posing as an legal authority on shooting unarmed citizens posing no threat to anyone. Thanks for your scholarly disertation
Mr. White and Wrong. We will save this post and read it back to you after a federal jury awards the Kaady family a large settlement. Thank God for all the citizens that have enough education & horse sense to know that the shooting of an unarmed naked man is "Always Wrong" no matter how many crooked cops, spindoctors from CCPOA, sheister municiple attornies, or lame sheriff's & chiefs we have trying to use "case Law" to spin the facts. Thank God the jury that will be seated will come from a pool of these honest citizens and not from this crooked cop collective, or from Craig Robert's OXYCODIN CREW.
Now you may go stock your corn nuts and clean the slurpee machine Mr. Steve
(email verified)
Sun, Feb 17, 2008 at 07:01 AM
Bang Bang.........boink boink boink
Bang Bang.........oink oink oink
(email verified)
Sun, Feb 17, 2008 at 07:04 AM
Ahhh, got to love the responses.
I think the above posts that are responding to "Awaiting the venomous attacks" are all from the same child porn surfing pedophille. I think you write while you are still worked up from that. How many criminal convictions do you have anyway?
Dude are you serious? You still won't answer the questions. How do you know what Willard and Bergin knew? The hit and run(s), plural loser, were a string of events that also broadcasted the alleged assault of a good samaritan, displaying "super strength" and walking up on a car. And those were broadcasted after his final crash! Those figure in like it or not dummy.
You are the only piece of crap here. You do exactly what you pretend to despise. Discount anything that does not fit your puzzle of condemnation. You are part of the problem retard, not the solution. A grand jury heard the case and did not indict. You can spin that anyway you like but it was obviously not as simple as "naked, unarmed and injured". Maybe all of the witnesses without damaging testimony, ie; several 9-1-1 callers, were part of the conspiracy.
It is obvious that you have an axe to grind that is deeper than a police shooting. It's called being a psychotic failure. Failure is not a stranger to you. It's a good thing that people like you are screened from juries, law enforcement and generally anything other than digging ditches. Is that it? Dashed dreams? Failure is hard I know.
By the way, firefighters won't just go in on these patients. No, they wait for the police. Another point that underscores your absolute and total ingnorance of a subject that you know absolutley nothing about. My suggestion would be for you to handle the next one. You are obviously the expert and a much better man than any. Yea right, your wife (insert mail order bride) probably beats you.
I am sure the next time you are being victimized that you will not hesitate to call 9-1-1 and cry like a little sissy to the first cop that shows up. That's your type. It is obvious.
Take a hike dude and before you dig into your deepest warped fantasies, I am not Bergin, Willard, employed by Sandy or CCSO. Is that clear enough for your drug clouded alcoholic mind? And just to be clear I am not even stating that I support Bergin or Willard. What I am stating is that social parasites like yourself are hypocrits. You claim to champion the common man yet you edit and discount facts for your own warped sense of justice. You sir are scarier than those you malign. Thank god you are in the minority on this subject.
(email verified)
Sun, Feb 17, 2008 at 09:28 AM
Thanks Bill for demonstrating to everyone that You are still wrong about everything.
It won't be long before a judge and jury say the same things that the majority of good citizens here have already tried to tell you. You are too psychotic to communicate with when you have that Oxycodin high goin on.. FYI stupid the man that said he was licked was the cousin of the girl involved in the H&R. The killers knew nothing about this either. They just knew it would be safer to shoot than to get blood on them. Dont tell me about what firefighters do Mr. Moron. Thirty years & retired from CC. These victims had a chance before we started staging in the nineties and allowing the little, steroid, oxycodin rambos jacked up on adrenalin to rush in first. Have seen many piece of crap authoritarin monsters like you kill patients having a diabetic fit or epileptic attack. By the time you brain dead little rambos finish beating up, cuffing, and thowing a patient into your back seat, not having a clue what is going on and we get to them, it is often too late.
Go read what Sad Historian wrote about you and you boss yesterday Bill. It's all true and fits you to a tee.
You didn't choose your job, they chose you because the needed empty headed robots with no brains that they could program as killers and defenders of facsism. Sorry you were too short to qualify for Blackwater automan. Even your ex-girl friend hates you shorty. You have no redeeming qualities. You are a loser. Get that box out and climb back up into your piece of sheet Rambler and find a cliff to drive off of. Oregonian deffinately had you in mind when they past the assisted suicide law. It's the 60% of disgusting, wife beating, cowardly, drug addict punk cops like you that give the rest a bad name.
(email verified)
Sun, Feb 17, 2008 at 01:20 PM
Bravo. Thanks for putting Shorty to bed. A thousand Sandy residents clapping out here.
Bang bang........ Bang Bang Bang
More OxyCodin for Bill
(email verified)
Sun, Feb 17, 2008 at 01:26 PM
I know I will suffer many unfair, venomous attacks for this, but Quit picken on Bill & Harold. They are sorry.
I mean really. They are. They done their punishment sheet an all that. They won't do it again. I mean really, they won't. They promise. They will go to meetings and all that stuff, an Harold won't let Bill have bullets or ant thing. And they'll have shorty to look after them. Come on George, can i pet the rabbits,
please. Let me hold one.
(email verified)
Sun, Feb 17, 2008 at 01:33 PM
Don't worry Bill. There's life after being a cop. You'll find something else to do. Maybe the talk show circuit. Look at Paris Hilton, Brittany Spears, Linsey Lohan. They all survived . Hang in there.
(email verified)
Sun, Feb 17, 2008 at 01:37 PM
Look all you people compair a police officer with smut like brittany spears? I'm sorry I was born and raised in the city of Sandy and I have many talks with Bill! he is just an ordonary guy who pick the job of being a cop no damn differant than a doctor or a contractor! sorry Bill its unethical on thease ppl's behalf, any other person would just have there name in the paper your mug shots? wow.... come leave the guy alone maybe he and his girl was on the outs maybe he was trying to figure a way to win her heart back you dont know and as far as I am concern it's none of our bussiness. what?just because his is an officer he cant drink? get real!
(email verified)
Sun, Feb 17, 2008 at 07:04 PM
Trying to win her heart back with a screwdriver
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 12:33 AM
I work with and interview cops every day. They all feel the Kaady shooting was totally unjustified and the result of two cowards with poor training. My guess is that not only will the Kaady family win this hands down but that it will be remanded back to fedeal court for criminal prosecution surrounding the coverup.
Also I'm pretty sure this fool you call shorty is Steve Hyson and that his presense here is strictly for puposes of obvuscation.
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 12:41 AM
Shorty;
Any cop worth his salt will tell you, it ain't the stories you've heard about PCP, odd behavior or anything else like that, that matters. Each case is different, and if you roll up on the scene with a bunch of preconcieved notions about what awaits you, you are likely to get in trouble real quick. You deal with what is. If it's an injured, naked man, who is badly injured sitting in the road in a catatonic state, you get him medical attention. This isn't about case law you moron. It's commom sense. Any good cop should be thoroughly ashamed of what these two, cowardly clowns did.
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 12:50 AM
CCDefenseAttorney Investigator, I doubt you even are an investigator and certainly not for a District Attorney. Most cops are going to look at all of the information. Saying that you have talked to all kinds of cops is certainly a great way to try and bolster your opinion. But why? Because you claim they are telling you what you want to hear.
Another Sandy citizen. Behavior, especailly just prior to an encounter, of a subject is certainly part of the picture and how you approach the situation. Actually "shorty", not even sure he wrote the post, or another poster actually had it right. It falls into the totality of the circumstances. Even a Kaady supporter got it right when they mentioned Damon Coates and his law suit. A large part of the Damon Coates situation was the Deputy not having information on "prior behavior". That shooting might have been avoided if he had. Dep. Coates certainly would not have been using the approach that he was if he had the prior information. What it seemed, an unarmed distraught young man, was not what it was.
I do agree with one of the posters above. Medical personnel were not going to treat until Kaady had been detained. That is protocol with most fire and ambulance crews. He was at that time being sought for a minimum of hit and run. I would shy away from the term "preconceived notions". A lot of cops who don't pay attention to the information at hand or only "deal with what is (seems)" are usually the ones who will get hurt or dead. Kaady's behavior just prior to the confrontation was indicative of narcotics intoxication or a severe mental issue. Based on what I have read that is indisputable and cannot be discounted. That information would cause any officer to have a heightened level of response. Whether Bergin or Willard knew the prior information is of course unknown, at least I have not seen it anywhere in print. Anyone in law enforcement would assume that the information was communicated. Once again, that would be protocol to continually update the responding officers. Maybe not the information from earlier in the morning, but certainly the ongoing calls that started with the initial hit and run, his crash and the confrontations he had while walking up the highway.
Once again this can be discounted as a scared cop, a liar or whatever personal attack is the flavor of the day. However, yes Kaady's prior behavior and his behavior during the confrontation are applicable.
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 02:01 AM
To the moron writing Oxycodon Crew and the CCPOA Spin Stopper
Don't you have another NMBLA or FFA(no not Future Farmers of America) meeting to catch? Maybe you should go tend to your grow operation or your lab. What did Clackamas County arrest you for that got you so burned? Or did you get canned?
What a flaming creep.
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 02:10 AM
While I don't know Bill personally. I do live near him and see him on a regular basis. He appears to be a very nice young man. I think we all agree that he made a mistake and is paying for it as he (any one else) should. I think we should just let him get on with his life.
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 10:13 AM
I too am a neighbor and I think he mops about in a fog of
serious clinical depression, and so till that is truly in
a state of remission, he is unfit to be a policeman. So,
I say get rid of him before he kills again or goes postal
while under influence of alcohol or some drug. Get rid of
him N-O-W by saying "bye Bill!" and be damned and done w/
him as this dude is costing the little city a fortune as
yet uncalculated and the cash register is stuck opened!
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 10:31 AM
One thing evident from these post and watching the daily news is what a sub culture cops are. I kind of feel sorry for them because they have such a thankless job and know one likes them. Usually, not even their wives and families. When I was a fireman, I know most of us couldn't even stand being around them because they had such a lack of humanity and were so devoid of any compassion or understanding of human nature. They can't really have any friends or socialize outside their
small circle because they have such a distorted world view and are just too wierd. These guys really do sacrifice everything to be cops, including ethics and humanity.
One curious thing so evident here is how the value placed on a human life takes a big nose dive the minute a cop thinks someone has broke the law. Have a cop come up on a car wreck where someone has a severed arm, and that cop might put on the gloves & goggles and apply a touniquet, and even risk getting some blood on himself. Call and tell dispatch that you have a man in your store acting stange that might be on drugs and the little Rambo pricks that show up are likely to tase and tackle a diabetic having a fit or an epileptic having a seizure. Us firemen used to treat them first and then the law changed. It was interesting seeing how a cop treated someone based strictly on thinking they may have violated some law. The minute this suspicion enters the picture, the value of human life goes way down in a cops mind. I have seen citizens die in the back seat of cop cars because some ignorant little piece of sh-t rambo thought they were druggies and didn't realise they were dealing with a medical emegency. The public was safer when us firemen could go in first to a scene because it didn;t matter to us who we were treating. We were just there to render aid.
Think for instance about a hiker falling into a crevice on Mt. Hood. Think about the response from public safety personell and how many people might place their life in jeopardy for the sake of saving one human life.
You don't have little piss-ant cowards showing up and asking if the man bleeding down in the crevice has aids or a criminal record. You have real men that show up and are trained and not afraid to do what they are trained to do. Compare this with having two cowardly little rambos showing up at an accident scene and tasing a badly burnt man with flesh and skin hanging from his body, because he cant obey their commands.
This is sick, and most healthy people would agree with this, unless they have been totally desensitized and brainwashed. I get so sick of all of the propagand and the picture that just doesn't fit. Not all cops are bad. There is a minority that despite poor training and environment can keep their humanity. And then we have the corrupt little derelicts like Bergin and Willard that are willing to torture and snuff a life out so they don't have to get blood on their hands. Thse are not the noble, the brave, the strong, the heroic men that we hear cops are supposed to be. These are the sub human losers that lie in court, beat up disabled people, beat up their wives and children, and fall into the rabbit hole of drug and alcohol addiction. It's about time we give up these childish fantacies about cops being our noble protectors. Start reading your news papers a little closer and asking questions. Start asking the attornies involved in these cases like the Carl Bell Case or Bill Bowman case about the inner workings of your local departments. If you think the cop on the street is a disgusting, violent degenerate, wait till you get a glimpse of his bosses and the monsters behind the curtain guiding all of this corruption and depravity.
Every once in a while I feel a little sympathy for the old timer that writes, "just follow the law and you don't have to woory about cops". Maybe it used to be that way. Now a days, anytime you step out your door or into your car you are threatened with coming into contact with one of societies most violent, depraved, and corrupt criminals and they are your local police.
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 10:54 AM
One thing evident from these post and watching the daily news is what a sub culture cops are. I kind of feel sorry for them because they have such a thankless job and no one likes them. Usually, not even their wives and families. When I was a fireman, I know most of us couldn't even stand being around them because they had such a lack of humanity and were so devoid of any compassion or understanding of human nature. They can't really have any friends or socialize outside their
small circle because they have such a distorted world view and are just too wierd. These guys really do sacrifice everything to be cops, including ethics and humanity. These guys are your real outsiders. They remind me of the losers Hunter Thompson wrote about in Hells Angels. They really have no place to go in life, but further down.
One curious thing evident here is how the value placed on a human life takes a big nose dive the minute a cop thinks someone has broke the law. Have a cop come up on a car wreck where someone has a severed arm, and that cop might put on the gloves & goggles and apply a touniquet, and even risk getting some blood on himself. Call and tell dispatch that you have a man in your store acting stange that might be on drugs and the little Rambo pricks that show up are likely to tase and tackle a diabetic having a fit or an epileptic having a seizure. Us firemen used to reach and treat these victims first and then the law changed. After this new "staging was instituted, it was interesting seeing how a cop treated someone based strictly on thinking they may have violated some law. The minute this suspicion enters the picture, the value of human life goes way down in a cops mind. I have seen citizens die in the back seat of cop cars because some ignorant little piece of crap rambo thought they were druggies and didn't realise they were
dealing with a medical emegency such as a diabetic coma. The public was safer when us firemen could go in first to a scene because it didn;t matter to us who we were treating. We were just there to render aid.
Think for instance about a hiker falling into a crevice on Mt. Hood. Think about the response from public safety personell and how many people might place their life in jeopardy for the sake of saving one human life.
You don't have little piss-ant cowards showing up and asking if the man bleeding down in the crevice has aids or a criminal record. You have real men that show up and are trained and not afraid to do what they are trained to do. Compare this with having two cowardly little rambos showing up at an accident scene and tasing a badly burnt man with flesh and skin hanging from his body, because he cant obey their commands.
This is sick, and most healthy people would agree with this, unless they have been totally desensitized and brainwashed. I get so sick of all of the propaganda and this picture that just doesn't fit of what big heroes are cops are. Not all cops are bad. There is a minority that despite poor training and environment can keep their humanity. And then we have the derelicts like Bergin and Willard that are willing to torture and snuff a life out so they don't have to get blood on their hands, and lie about it after the fact. These are not the noble, the brave, the strong, the heroic men that we hear cops are supposed to be. These are the sub human losers that lie in court, beat up disabled people, beat up their wives and children, and fall into the rabbit hole of drug and alcohol addiction. It's about time we give up these childish fantacies about cops being noble heroes. Start reading your news papers a little closer and asking questions. Start talking with and asking the attornies involved in these cases like the Carl Bell Case or the Bill Bowman case about the inner workings of your local departments. If you think the cop on the street is a disgusting, violent degenerate, wait till you get a glimpse of his bosses and the monsters behind the curtain guiding all of this corruption and depravity.
Every once in a while I feel a little sympathy for the old timer or redneck that writes, "just follow the law and you don't have to worry about cops\". Maybe it used to be that way. Now a days, anytime you step out your door or into your car you are threatened with coming into contact with one of societies most violent, depraved, and corrupt criminals and they are called your local police.
We'll give you good cops the right to self defense and all the good shoots that check out, but not this one.
Even most cops are digusted and embarressed over this one, not to mention the further conduct Bill Bergin has displayed at being unfit.
(email verified)
Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 11:33 AM
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Re: Sandy officer's DUII arrest surfaces
To Whom it may concern,
Im a citizen here in Sandy and feel that this story should have been left out of your paper. I find it really hard to swallow that the Sandy Post would print something about an obvious sittuation (shooting/Duii) that is very hard for a young man to live with. He has struggled over the past years to get well & be able to sleep at night! You have now opened this tramtic event for the public to ridicule this officer. All he is wanting to do is put a shooting & mental anguishes behind him! It makes me sick to my stomach that you would print something so personal & try to hurt this person's reputation in his community. All Officer Bergin didn't need was to see this article about his mistake (a year ago). This will now again bring up mental problems for his family & for himself! Don't you understand that an Officer goes through alot of mental issues after a shooting & sometimes they never recover. Oh wait you people are not Police Officers are you? I believe you people, being so irresponsible have now added to this young officer's hard recovery. He has gone through many treatments & counciling and was proven to be recovered & released for work. Now you throw this article into the mix & who knows how he will react! I just feel this article should have not been printed at all! This was just a way to sell papers and not be scooped by the Orgonian.... What a joke the Orgonian didn't even print an article! (Weird they must have some respect for others). Lets all remember that Officer Bergin was off duty at the time & he does have the right to have a personel life just like you & me! If a regular citizen was involved in the same sittuation would it be printed in the paper??? Probably not! Just think before you print things that ruin other people's lives! Lets be responsible adults here! Our Police department needs our support not to be slammed by the paper! We don't have articles printed about our firefighters now do we? I know for a fact that some of them have done some pretty stupid things that have cost them their jobs & they aren't printed in the paper. Why is that? Are we holding grudges for getting traffic tickets? What's the story Marcus? Think about it!
"A concerned citizen"
(email verified)
Thu, Feb 07, 2008 at 03:17 AM